Seeking help with accuracy problem

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DaSOB said:
Yep, those are one inch squares. That's a template I downloaded from MyTargets.com.

I've been using a beanbag rest - I'll try the artillery hold using my hand to see how that works out. I'm pretty sure I'm getting a consistent trigger pull - I've conditioned myself not to flinch by just imaging there not being any recoil, and letting the "break" be a surprise. Kind of a self-hypnosis thing I taught myself.

I'll set up the chrono first chance I get - didn't feel like going through all that today, but I'll do it. The rifle did sit through a flood in 2016 - I had four feet of water in the house and my entire collection of firearms got a two-day soaking. Possibility that there are some issues relating to that.
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I think that gun/scope/laser/pellet combo is capable of at least 1/2" at 15 yards. If you are getting 1.75 to 2 inch groups at 15 yards, something is going on.

I think there's some good information on here and other forums on ...chasing POI shifts.
 
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JP806TX said:
I think that gun/scope/laser/pellet combo is capable of at least 1/2" at 15 yards. If you are getting 1.75 to 2 inch groups at 15 yards, something is going on.

I think there's some good information on here and other forums on ...chasing POI shifts.
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Thanks. Come to find out that the Pic rail on my Talon Magnum isn't standard - the few crosscuts in it are spaced differently than on a standard Pic rail and the laser wouldn't fit. I decided just to send it back since it appears that the scope isn't the problem anyway.

I tried the tissue test, but the recoil on my rifle is so strong that it throws the tissue completely off the rifle. Can't tell if there is a seal leak that way.

I found this info on POI shifts in springers - it's very illuminating. It was pretty windy here yesterday - I had a direct crosswind that seemed to vary between almost calm and maybe 5-7 MPH, and that could be a big factor with my groups.
 
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Well, I put a laser on the rifle (little red one I had on another gun) and shot a couple of groups early this morning before the wind could get up. I zeroed the laser on the scope crosshairs but sighted strictly on the laser each time and just used the scope to see it. I didn't try to zero the laser exactly since I was just looking to see what kind of groups I would get. The JSB rounds seemed to group better than the Benjamin - there's a two-fer in that group. But the shots are still printing off of what should be dead center. The groups are good enough for "minute of Coke can", but I'm OCD about groups!:geek:

One thing I noticed - the barrel doesn't always come back exactly to where it was on the prior shot. The laser will drift around in the scope, and since the laser is clamped to the barrel that's telling me that the barrel moves around from shot to shot. That's just the bane of break-barrel springers, I guess!

Be that as it may, using the artillery hold and sighting on the laser, I shot the two groups shown below the pic of the rifle

talon.jpg


groups 3.jpg
 
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I do not know your rig. I use very soft bag at balance point as a start as the base for me. I then sometimes use a soft rear rider. Mine rifle has a desire to twist as well as recoil when fired. Note most all movement in a springer, when fired, occurs BEFORE the projectile leaves the gun. I find a consistent right hand hold, critically trigger pull, is the make or bake on this foundation.
 
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Hard to say cause some groups with certain pellets dont look bad . Id stick with thr 2 best ones and use each of them to your side by side when testing another new pellet. . Some pellets in some guns just dont do well no matter how tight or loose thinhs are..lol.

Somtimes I try too hard to make a group and end up just choking it all the way.. 🤤
 
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DaSOB said:
Well, I put a laser on the rifle (little red one I had on another gun) and shot a couple of groups early this morning before the wind could get up. I zeroed the laser on the scope crosshairs but sighted strictly on the laser each time and just used the scope to see it. I didn't try to zero the laser exactly since I was just looking to see what kind of groups I would get. The JSB rounds seemed to group better than the Benjamin - there's a two-fer in that group. But the shots are still printing off of what should be dead center. The groups are good enough for "minute of Coke can", but I'm OCD about groups!:geek:

One thing I noticed - the barrel doesn't always come back exactly to where it was on the prior shot. The laser will drift around in the scope, and since the laser is clamped to the barrel that's telling me that the barrel moves around from shot to shot. That's just the bane of break-barrel springers, I guess!

Be that as it may, using the artillery hold and sighting on the laser, I shot the two groups shown below the pic of the rifle

View attachment 352634

View attachment 352633
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I have many Hatsan’s. Every single one will soot better groups than yours at 35 yards. I have turned many 95’s into carbines. When cutting down the barrel I re-crowned them. The original crowns from Hatsan are very rough. I think you should re-crown your barrel.
431C4CC9-E085-4C16-A21F-16F5033D0168.jpeg
 
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Ranchibi said:
Congratulations being retired and luv shooting! My only advice would be to invest in a decent PCP as they are so much easier to shoot than a springer especially as we age gracefully 🤗! I recently turned 60, retired also amd plink almost daily with my PCP's (mainly my RAW), if a shot is errant, I KNOW it's on ME and not the rifle, makes shooting a real pleasure. The initial cost can be a bit daunting because of a fill source but the new electric compressors way more affordable than before....sorry for no help with your Walther!
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I call bullpoop don’t buy a pcp
 
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Bear-of-Grayling said:
Also. Put a couple pieces of blue painters tape on the scope at the rings and at the rings to the base. Line it up to an exact match. Watch to see if you are getting scope/ring movement. Sounds like you are.
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I checked the scope - it's on rock solid, not budging a micron. Seems that the crown may be the culprit, only I can't get the "muzzle brake" off. I trimmed the buggered edges with my pocket knife and got it looking OK again, but I'm still stuck on how to access the crown. Might just be best that I be satisfied with having enough accuracy to pop rogue Coke cans and put depleted aerosol cans out of their misery.:p

Addendum: I found a video on removing the hand brake. You have to cut the thing off in sections. I sent an inquiry to Hatsan about obtaining a replacement part and I'm not going to do anything further until I have that part in my hand (if I even am able to get it).
 
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The muzzle brake is pressed straight on. The barrel is grooved so the brake cannot turn. I took a thick piece of hardwood and drilled a hole in the middle just slightly larger than the barrel diameter. Cut it in two pieces. Wrap it around the barrel just behind the brake. Screw the two pieces back together. Insert a rod down the brake that lands on the barrel in front of the crown. With clamps press the brake forward until it’s off. The hole in the wood has to catch the small flat on the end of the brake. It can’t move up the brake else it’s pinching it and the brake will not budge. It’s really pressed on tight.
 
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Bear-of-Grayling said:
The muzzle brake is pressed straight on. The barrel is grooved so the brake cannot turn. I took a thick piece of hardwood and drilled a hole in the middle just slightly larger than the barrel diameter. Cut it in two pieces. Wrap it around the barrel just behind the brake. Screw the two pieces back together. Insert a rod down the brake that lands on the barrel in front of the crown. With clamps press the brake forward until it’s off. The hole in the wood has to catch the small flat on the end of the brake. It can’t move up the brake else it’s pinching it and the brake will not budge. It’s really pressed on tight.
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Thanks. I have some oak sections left over from a flooring job, so I can use those.
 
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The muzzle brake that’s on my carbines is the same one that came on the gun. Just like yours. I didn’t want the sight on it anyway so I stuck a rod in it and chucked it in my drill press. Turned it down smooth for a better cocking handle. Used a wood rasp and sand paper. Being polymer I had to go slow else it gets to warm.
 
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SteveP-52 said:
I've always used the brass screw and lapping compound way of touching up crowns. Shine a flashlight in there and see just how far down the crown is. The one on my 95 I could slide a 3 inch brass screw attached to a drill to get to it and not remove the break, but the Talon might well be farther in.
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The Talon appears to be the Hatsan 125 with the Walther name on it. I had a look with a flashlight down inside the brake - the muzzle is 1.5" down, there is NO crown, and the end of the muzzle is very rough. I may try the brass screw procedure before I start trying to take the brake off. I can cobble up a puller with a piece of oak plank and some long screws if I have to go that route.
 
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Hateful McNasty said:
When you look at these it shows the muzzle is threaded . Just cant find any posting of on any hatson removed to be more 100% sure its not slip / press on. Also maybe hatsan added a good thread lock to kerp the sight from rolling off center?
View attachment 352948
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It's slip-on. I was able to drive it an inch or so toward the muzzle end, but I buggered up the edge of it doing that. I pushed it back in place and trimmed the buggered-up end off with my pocket knife. No harm, no foul there.
 
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DaSOB said:
It's slip-on. I was able to drive it an inch or so toward the muzzle end, but I buggered up the edge of it doing that. I pushed it back in place and trimmed the buggered-up end off with my pocket knife. No harm, no foul there.
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I guess i never had one that hard to get off maybe try hair dryer on the plastic to expand it a tad to help it slip off ( or if any glue may soften it up as well)
 
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