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Scopes and Limited Up Elevation Adjustment - Solution?

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K

KnowNothing

Member
Jul 8, 2019
110
0
California, United States
Hi Everyone, I was back at the local public firing range yesterday shooting my Daisy Avanti 753 with UTG 3-9X32 1" BugBuster Scope, AO, RGB Mil-dot, QD Rings

I started out the first round by shooting at 25 yards. But I found I needed more of a challenge. I was hitting near dead center with a pattern maybe a silver dollar in size. Though most of the pellets were going through the hole punched in the center.

On the second round, I moved out to 50 yards, and discovered that my scope didn't have enough up elevation adjustment. I was still hitting below the target, down on the supporting cardboard backing about 15 inches. That basically meant I had to aim about four inches above the cardboard backing, which is a problem, as there isn't a reference to aim at.

I ended up going back to 25 yards for the third and fourth round. On the fourth round I started shooting at the points of the red arrows that pointed towards the center of the target. I hit my first try right on the point, but I am guessing I was getting a bit tired, and only managed to scare the other points at 3, 6 and 9 o'clock.

What I would like to know is, is there a way to modify my scope so that the front ring is higher than the back ring, so I can get my scope adjustment to have enough play for adjustment. Apparently the Avanti doesn't have enough FPS to get to the 50 yard target other than a parabolic arc.

Or are there scopes that have a lot more elevation adjustment than my current Bug scope?.

I really would like to shoot at 50 yards. Even with the lack of reference, I managed to hit the target half the time, but I would love to see if I can at least get my pellets inside the center ring of the target. I know I am not going to hit the red dot center very often at that range. The wind plays havoc with the trajectory of these light pellets.

This particular scope I have does not have an accessible stop. The SRO tried to remove the stop, but discovered that this scope is not built like typical scopes. I guess that means it is built a lot cheaper than quality ones, as apparently he has modified other scopes to allow for more elevation adjustment by removing the stop.



Anyway, I had another fun day. Spent nearly four hours punching holes in the target. But am looking for more of a challenge, which means more distance. Exactly how far can these pellet rifles shoot out to? I am imagining that for them to go 50 yards or farther, they need a higher FPS velocity.



CaleyAnn
 
jdh, Thanks so much for the link. I looked at all the suggestions, and ended up just shimming the front ring. I used the plastic from one gallon water jugs. I've put four under for a beginning, which is about 1/16th of an inch. If that is too much, I can just dial down the scope adjustment to get it right. If not enough, I have four extra shims. I doubt adding more than 1/8 inch total in shims is a good idea. If that isn't enough, then I need to look for a rifle that is not a break barrel or PCP that can achieve, say 800 FPS.

I have a Swiss Arms TG-1 that supposedly shoots at 1400 FPS, but reviews say it is closer to 1100. The problem is I don't have the strength you Guys have to cock it. I've managed twice, and after that, could not budge it. I just do not have the arm strength, or grip strength because of my arthritis. I have to concentrate just to cock my Avanti 753.

I am guessing that if I want something over 1000 FPS, I am going to have to purchase a PCP and all the support equipment. I would have purchased one already if it wasn't for the fact that we do not have anywhere withing 100 miles of 29 Palms (that I am aware off, that fills air tanks for these rifles.

I am going to try this coming Friday to see if I can hit at 50 yards at the public shooting range. Hopefully the wind won't bee too strong,



CaleyAnn
 
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Marflow, Do you have a suggestion for a scope with that ability that doesn't exceed $250. Right now I have thought about going to 22lr Rimfire so I can shoot at distance. The scope suggested was Mueller 8-32×44 Side Focus Target Dot, which retails for less than the manufacturer's website lists. I'd prefer to stay with air rifles, as here in California, it is a hassle to obtain a firearms permit. As it is, I do not have a federally accepted driver's license, which is required for that permit, so I am having to update my license regardless. Apparently after this year, if you want to travel anywhere on public transportation, you will need a federally recognized form of ID. I was also informed that after then, I might not be able to get onto the Marine base without registering my vehicle, which will also need the same type of ID.
 
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Was I thinking backwards with shimming the front scope ring. If so, that is typical of my visualisation of things. I will reverse everything I did.

When I got this Avanti 753 rifle, it had 11mm mounting rails built in. I purchased another mount that allowed me to attach I believe it is 7/8 inch (picatinny?) mounting rings. Those rings and the mount allowed me to put this scope on so I could at least use tweezers to insert my pellets.

Can anyone suggest an adjustable 1 inch scope ring mount with that type of base that won't break the pocketbook. I usually shop on Amazon, so if they have something I would be very interested. I'd rather dispense with the shimming. I just cannot figure out what type of adjustable height rings will work.

CaleyAnn
 
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FX no-limit rings

Sportsmatch also has a series of adjustable rings.

Eaglevision also has very nice adjustable rings with plenty of elevation :) (working for both 1" and 30mm scopes). They also have a 34mm version.

These are the best I know at a reasonable price...
Click to expand...


+ that

I have all three types and the FX No-Limit rings are good basic mounts that have different bases and different ring options. One clamp screw

Buy mine at https://www.trenieroutdoors.com/mounts/fx-mounts/

The Eaglevision are expensive and built like a rock, I have three sets but they are actually overkill on an airrifle. Two clamp screws.

I order them from the source, shipping by Royal Mail Air and get them in 4 to 5 days https://eaglevisioncam.com/product/infinity-elevation-ajustable-scope-mount-fae-s50-30mm-ring-picatinny/

and those Monstrum rings are cheap crap that are WAYYYY to flexible

Shimming sort of works and years ago that's what we did but unless they are tapered shims it can bind and warp the scope body and ruin the lens alignments, not really recommended as it's sort of a Billy Bob thing to still do it nowdays. For 1000 yard benchrest I used to lap mounted ring sets with a machined 1" bar or ream them larger and build the insides up with release compound on the scope and metal filled epoxy in the rings so the scope would be at the proper MOA down angle of 10 or 15 degrees. But we don't have to do that anymore because we can buy great height adjustable rings!



To prep for long range and get enough elevation I find the center of the clicks on both elevation and windage on the scope, then check to see how much they are off optical zero using the mirror method. If it's too much I return the scope as it shows the internals are not positioned correctly for clear viewing at all powers and as you move the internal lens tube too far off to one side distortion happens. If its close to optically centered and I will have decent adjustment left in both directions (like a 55/45 % of clicks) that scope is OK. 

Mount the scope then go shoot it for zero (lets say at 50 yards, not really long range but illustrates the principle). I use a rifle cradle that holds the rifle firmly in position. I DON"T adjust the elevation knob, I loosen slightly the front ring height adjustment so it can snuggly rotate and not twist the scope body and loosen the rear enough that I can lift it (usually about 0.030 or 0.040) while looking through the scope until my crosshairs are the proper distance below the first bullet hole and then lock it down [example: most air rifles I zero at 85 yards which gives me aprox 3' high at 50 yards and 3' low at 100 yards.. Good for the 6" vital zone on the hogs and deer I hunt and easy to remember the trajectory, especially switching rifles] Usually on firing the second shot I am within a 1/4" or less of being zeroed and THEN I use the elevation to fine tune the scope POI. I usually fire a third sighting shot but rarely have to adjust the scope any more FOR ELEVATION.

Using the same method for 100 yard zero at 100 yards; holding the rifle in the same position, fire the first shot then adjust the mounts heights to bring the crosshairs up or down to the bullet hole, lock them down and you will be very close to zero with all the scope adjustment left. (I've even done it with sandbags where a second person on the side holds the rifle from moving through the process, the shooter takes the shot then adjusts the rings. If the rifle moves it will not work)

Note this same method works for windage - AFTER I've done the elevation zero with the rings then AGAIN holding the rifle fixed in position, shoot a shot and use the windage knob to bring the crosshairs to the bullet hole. Now it's zeroed in both X and Y axis's. {Of course, be smart, you have to compensate for any crosswinds when you are doing this. See: using a trajectory calculator for this too so you know your offset}



As a final comment to the OP on shooting pellets long distance, I mostly shoot Big Bore now which means .257 and above, mostly .357 and .457 (small is .250 and down) but I have shot my 65 FPE .25 Benjamin Marauder (Hill valve and .187 barrel porting) at 150 yards with JSB 33.95gr (washed, all damaged culled out, weighed to .1gr and lubed) and can get 1-1/2 MOA groups... regularly, on a still day. Mostly thank Chairgun or Strelok Pro trajectory calculators on my Android phone!!! Note that this rifle will do 1/2 MOA or less at 50 yards any day... that's basically a one hole group.



Got it now?
 
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Kinetic45, I hate to say this, but "HUH?" I just started shooting about a month ago, after nearly 30 years, and that was iron sights on the M-16 and 38 revolver. So your technical stuff is totally over my head. If I had the shim adjustment for the rings backwards, I definitely would be lost with what you just passed on.

I'm going to keep things very simple for me. I will just shoot a group of pellets, once I have the adjustable scope rings, and then proceed to make an adjustment. The FX is on order. Those rings were very expensive, so they better be quite good


 
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Kinetic45, I hate to say this, but "HUH?" I just started shooting about a month ago, after nearly 30 years, and that was iron sights on the M-16 and 38 revolver. So your technical stuff is totally over my head. If I had the shim adjustment for the rings backwards, I definitely would be lost with what you just passed on.

I'm going to keep things very simple for me. I will just shoot a group of pellets, once I have the adjustable scope rings, and then proceed to make an adjustment. The FX is on order. Those rings were very expensive, so they better be quite good

Click to expand...


Haha, well then

With the adjustable height rings, for longer range, put the front of the scope down and the rear up higher (a couple of degrees, no gap at the front or just a tiny angle gap (because the rear is higher) and on the rear ring a larger gap that might be anywhere from 3 or 4 thicknesses of paper for medium range to the thickness of a credit card gap)... tweak until you get it.

Download the free Chairgun app, it's the only way to shoot airguns worth a hoot at longer ranges at the beginner level.



On the sighting instructions, maybe its hard reading it but once you see it done it's SOOOO simple you will never use anything else. Copy/paste the above long instructions and print it out and take it to the range, they will understand and show you, it's really easy. Probably most of them use that now too, it's a common method.
 
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Someone, somewhere mentioned that they cleaned their rifle upon receiving it from the seller, and said everyone should do so.

Well, I decided that after two rounds of shooting I should do the same, even if it is a bit late. The results were disturbing, or I think they are. 

I used the wire brush with the Hopps cleaning solution first. Next I soaked one of the cleaning squares with oil as per instructions, and ran it through the barrel. After that, I ran clean squares through until they came out clean.

What is disturbing is that at the beginning, the swabs were coming out with a red colour. It looked like rust. I am wondering if it was rust, or just the colour of the Hopps gun barrel oil. If it is rust, then the rifle must have been unsold for quite some time. I'm probably going to have to repeat this procedure after each round of shooting to see if I get the same results.

Last time I saw something like this was at the military firing range with an M-16. Apparently the rifle I got had been in storage for quite some time. It also ended up with what looked like rust while cleaning the barrel.
 
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"Shimming sort of works and years ago that's what we did but unless they are tapered shims it can bind and warp the scope body and ruin the lens alignments, not really recommended as it's sort of a Billy Bob thing to still do it nowdays. For 1000 yard benchrest I used to lap mounted ring sets with a machined 1" bar or ream them larger and build the insides up with release compound on the scope and metal filled epoxy in the rings so the scope would be at the proper MOA down angle of 10 or 15 degrees. But we don't have to do that anymore because we can buy great height adjustable rings!"

Could not agree more. Did the same many years ago, down to the reaming and mounting with bedding compound. I've never used shims.
 
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Gentlemen, The FX ring mounts are supposed to arrive today. I get to install them tonight, and do a preliminary adjustment. They are a bit pricey. I hope they are built well.

Hopefully that adjustment will be close enough to put me on target at 50 yards when I go shooting at the local public shooting range on Friday.

Thanks for your suggestions.


 
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