SCAM?

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This may be an unpopular opinion, but it is a violation of paypal policy both to use F&F to pay for goods/services and to ask for a markup if you pay via paypal/F&F. Paypal does crack down on that as well if they notice an unusual number of F&F transactions going on, so I never pay F&F even if I trust the seller. It also tells me, any seller who requests it, is relatively inexperienced as they must not have had enough transactions for Paypal to flag their account. I realize it is a forum culture thing, but in general I'm just not super thrilled when I see a listing asking for F&F and/or asking for a premium (typically more than the actual fees) for paypal. 

On the flip side of the coin, I think it says something good about this forum's culture that this appears to happen regularly and we're not bombarded with stories of scams going on. So that is very pleasing. 

Just my 2c, for what little they're worth. 
 
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This may be an unpopular opinion, but it is a violation of paypal policy both to use F&F to pay for goods/services and to ask for a markup if you pay via paypal/F&F. Paypal does crack down on that as well if they notice an unusual number of F&F transactions going on, so I never pay F&F even if I trust the seller. It also tells me, any seller who requests it, is relatively inexperienced as they must not have had enough transactions for Paypal to flag their account. I realize it is a forum culture thing, but in general I'm just not super thrilled when I see a listing asking for F&F and/or asking for a premium (typically more than the actual fees) for paypal. 

On the flip side of the coin, I think it says something good about this forum's culture that this appears to happen regularly and we're not bombarded with stories of scams going on. So that is very pleasing. 

Just my 2c, for what little they're worth.
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If a person has a good transaction history then I don't see a problem with it. You have to keep up the fight to slow inflation.
 
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When I used to manufacture high end tattoo equipment and sell to confirmed artists and shops 'world-wide', 
Paypal was usually the most convenient way for everyone to conduct transactions.. There was never an issue..
Until the One Time I had a guy from out of the USofA pay me via 'Friends & Family'...
I didn't think anything of it.. I 'got paid', confirmed the address, shipped [USPS insured w/ tracking and export papers]
In the end, the person filed some sort of a 'dispute' with Paypal, then even with proof, the 'payment' disappeared.. 
Yup, burned for about $700.00. I had to fight with Paypal and the USPS Post Master, and still lost out in the end..

Be Very Careful Using The Friends & Family Payment Method! - Just a friendly heads up!
As mentioned above, the whole concept is - You send your cash to a Trusted Source ["Friend" / "Family"]
That said, there is no protection put in place whatsoever.. Hence why it isn't a great option for sales.. 
And they make that clear..

Fast forward to now a days.. Well.. I use F&F quite a bit..
Especially on here - Since I'm Extremely careful now, and, I've only done transactions with 'confirmed' Great Members!! 
Awesome experiences on both sides, and that's the way it should be!

If/When in doubt - Just pay / receive the normal way..

The way I see it - I was burned by Paypal for that $700.00 So.... 
I'll eventually get it back by not giving up 3% to them using the usual method.. 
Wow, that'd be an awful lot of transactions.. 😃 

👍 

Sam -


 
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@DirtyDovi so two things to note here. The first is that you're not actually "getting anything back" from paypal. It doesn't cost them anything to shuffle numbers between accounts, and ACH transactions (pulling from your bank account) is also free. I suspect part of their transaction fee structure is for the same reason why they'll charge YOU a fee if you try to use a credit card to pay someone F&F: the credit cart company will charge them a fee. Something to keep in mind, no matter what you do, PP wins as long as you use them. ;) 

As for that unfortunate deal where you got scammed, here is another scam: Paypal "seller protection." Doesn't exist. Even if that buyer had paid you via goods and services, even if you did everything by the book for seller protection including the guy signed for the order and personally confirmed delivery via email, even if the guy filed a paypal dispute and LOST that dispute, if he paid through paypal with a credit card and files a chargeback PP will not only yank that money away from you, they'll hit you with a fee for incurring a chargeback. It is something to be aware of when using paypal, if the person on the other side hits you with a chargeback it flat out doesn't matter what you did, paypal isn't going to eat that, they'll make sure you not only bear that loss they'll make sure you pay their chargeback fees too. Just something to keep in mind when doing business with the ole 'pal, no matter what happens they won't lose a penny as best I can tell. 


Food for thought. :) 
 
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I always saw it as the seller giving the buyer an oppurtunity to save a few bucks using F&F as long as they feel they can trust them. You know, $1000 F&F or +3% for goods and services, rather than just selling it for $1030 and always using goods and services. I'm sure every seller on ebay or anywhere that takes paypal, adds that fee into their final price. But I do agree when you're spending that much, what's a few extra beans to ensure you don't get bitten?
 
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 Would agree with Buford. An added opinion, if the Seller is taking advantage of a smoother more liquid market by using PP why shouldn’t the seller absorb what ever expense (3%) in most cases? They could add to price and net what they want. Buyer could also agree to pay listed price and ask Seller to pay the 3%, if Seller wants to walk away providing no insurance for the buyer over 3%; that seller really doesn’t want to sell the item.
 
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We really need a "Trusted Buyer/Seller" type forum to note sales from trusted customers/buyers, known con men, and non-payers. That's the ONLY way I would send someone money, especially on a "WTB" posting. 

I've posted such WTB needs before, and received several fraudulent responses. There are a lot of crooks out there cruising forums looking for someone to cheat. A purchase history is a great way to sort out the good guys from the thief's.



Kindly 'Ol Uncle
 
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I am not a stick in the mud....I am the MUD the stick is stuck in. My opinion is that if a seller wants to cheat PayPal %3, he will be more likely to try to cheat me, in the end.

A small carge for offering a service to me that I otherwise could not do on my own ... How horrible! I do remember when one had to send a paper check or postal money order to pay someone remotely. Heck, it was a huge risk to do that then, can you imagine how hard it was to buy something from Japan or (gasp!) China back in the 70's, 80's and even the 90's? PayPal fees are tiny, and for the exchange of funds is secure. How and who you do business with is up to you.

Simply said...

Don't cheat the system.

Be a man of honor.
 
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@DirtyDovi so two things to note here. The first is that you're not actually "getting anything back" from paypal. It doesn't cost them anything to shuffle numbers between accounts, and ACH transactions (pulling from your bank account) is also free. I suspect part of their transaction fee structure is for the same reason why they'll charge YOU a fee if you try to use a credit card to pay someone F&F: the credit cart company will charge them a fee. Something to keep in mind, no matter what you do, PP wins as long as you use them. ;) 

As for that unfortunate deal where you got scammed, here is another scam: Paypal "seller protection." Doesn't exist. Even if that buyer had paid you via goods and services, even if you did everything by the book for seller protection including the guy signed for the order and personally confirmed delivery via email, even if the guy filed a paypal dispute and LOST that dispute, if he paid through paypal with a credit card and files a chargeback PP will not only yank that money away from you, they'll hit you with a fee for incurring a chargeback. It is something to be aware of when using paypal, if the person on the other side hits you with a chargeback it flat out doesn't matter what you did, paypal isn't going to eat that, they'll make sure you not only bear that loss they'll make sure you pay their chargeback fees too. Just something to keep in mind when doing business with the ole 'pal, no matter what happens they won't lose a penny as best I can tell. 


Food for thought. :)
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STO,

Well said, and thank you for elaborating on things! That all makes perfect sense! 
Also, when you mentioned the fees on top of the initial numbers, that was something that hiked up the cost of my 'loss'. 
Not only did I have the money taken back from the sale, but I was charged other feels also.. I lost my faith in humanity that day..

It's like people that receive counterfeit bank or money orders, try to deposit or cash them at their bank 
just to find out that they're not worth the paper that they're printed on. So not only do they lose out on the 'face-value' of the m/o, 
they're usually also charged a fee by the bank.. It's unfortunate and sad that the system works that way, but, that's just the way it is I suppose..

"Paypal seller protection" - Ahh yes, that exact thing has been brought up many many times by sellers on different forums.. 
While I stopped selling on eBay years ago [no real reason] I still randomly read the buyer/seller forums, just to keep up on things.. 
Sellers complained an awful lot about Not being protected, and no matter what eBay / PayPal would side with the buyer..

As someone who works in retail/sales, I know how many people 'buyers' that are out there that just thrive on getting freebies.. 
Too many sellers try to do their thing, even go above and beyond, and they're taken advantage of.. Again, just another sad reality.

Sam -
 
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I totally disagree with the F&F post. First off most of you do not sell enough guns on here to even make PayPal look twice at you. Secondly PayPal will get their money out of you most likely because often times you'll buy something from a dealer after you have sold the gun and they will get their 3%.



Here is why I would only take F&F if you were a private seller. All the buyer has to say is the item was not as described...I am not going to tell you the rest of how you can use PayPal to scam people, (dont want to give anyone ideas) just as a dealer who uses PayPal a lot please just take me at my word. Use F&F
 
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