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Daystate Sapphire.25

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cavedweller

cavedweller

Member
Dec 5, 2018
3,174
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Mobile, Alabama, United States
I bought a gorgeous Daystate Wolverine Sapphire in .25 caliber for EFT.

I love love love the Wolverine; especially the new sapphire stock!!

Unfortunately I had to send it home for repairs due to obvious clipping issues even when using an oversized moderator.

Quick turnaround and Got it back yesterday and set it up this morning, Sunday and I’ll be damned ….. still clipping albeit not as significantly because they tried to cure the issue by using a larger diameter 0DB moderator while explaining to me that a .22 moderator baffle was inadvertently used during moderator assembly. 🫤

Obviously I have a barrel or shroud that is tweaked or a breech block that is not 100% true?

I’ve asked for a new barrel and shroud to see if the fix is simple but I’d hate to think the breech isn’t machined correctly on DayState’s flagship mechanical rifle.

I own 4 Wolverines and this is the first airgun out of over 20 that I’ve set up that has had a clipping issue.

I tried several different .25 moderators including Huma, Air Impulse, Donny FL, STO, and 0DB and unless I used a .30 moderator zero was impossible. 💩

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EPG said:
I had clipping on my Wolverine R HP.

This may seem obvious… but unscrew and pull shroud forward - no need to completely remove shroud.

Tighten screws on shroud support - the piece the shroud screws onto. These screws were loose on my Wolverine when clipping.

Once tightened, clipping solved.

-Ed
Click to expand...
Heck yeah.... i can try that! thanks for the tip.... this is why AGN rocks.
I'll update this next weekend - i only have the Sunday pm to play with my toys. And i need actual daylight to see if i'm hitting what i'm aiming at or trying to zero on.
 
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EPG said:
I had clipping on my Wolverine R HP.

This may seem obvious… but unscrew and pull shroud forward - no need to completely remove shroud.

Tighten screws on shroud support - the piece the shroud screws onto. These screws were loose on my Wolverine when clipping.

Once tightened, clipping solved.

-Ed
Click to expand...
@EPG

I attempted to remove the shroud and tighten the shroud support points. As I remember the shroud just screws off CCW.

I removed the scope and yes the shroud did start to unscrew CCW,
but
the shroud fitment was getting tighter and tighter the further away from it's base it got.
and
was slowly wedging itself into the air bottle 🫤
No Bueno as the Sapphire shroud would be a pricey thing to replace or fix so i screwed the shroud back down and will have to wait and see what AOA says.

This tells me that the barrel is tweaked unless I'm missing something 🤷‍♂️

Thoughts?
 
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No. The likely cause is the front shroud support. It has an o-ring on it and its really freaking tight in the shroud.

In my picture below, I show the front shroud support. Note that I took the o-ring off mine. The barrel and shroud are stiff enough that the o-ring caused me more problems keeping the shroud straight than it solved.

If your o-ring is twisted or broken, just screw the shroud back on without the o-ring - you will see the tight tolerance.

And remember to tighten the grub screws in the breech end shroud support. If you have been shipping the air rifle around for service, even more reason that screws may need tightening.

-Ed

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EPG said:
No. The likely cause is the front shroud support. It has an o-ring on it and its really freaking tight in the shroud.

In my picture below, I show the front shroud support. Note that I took the o-ring off mine. The barrel and shroud are stiff enough that the o-ring caused me more problems keeping the shroud straight than it solved.

If your o-ring is twisted or broken, just screw the shroud back on without the o-ring - you will see the tight tolerance.

And remember to tighten the grub screws in the breech end shroud support. If you have been shipping the air rifle around for service, even more reason that screws may need tightening.

-Ed

View attachment 427604
Click to expand...
@EPG - what i'm not wrapping my head around is why as the shroud is being unscrewed / loosened, it deviates more and more towards the air bottle wedging itself inward; making it a good likelihood that i will mar the shroud if i continue to try and remove it.
I'm thinking AOA just needs to send me a new barrel AND shroud and i can remove the two grubs that hold the barrel and just replace the entire assembly - rather than shipping the whole gun back and forth.

see into 3 min 10 seconds of the wolverine shroud removal.... i have no where near the space between the bottle and shroud that Sub12 has.

i suspect that the grub holes for the shroud supports were not lined up in the grub hole spots before someone tightened them, thus causing barrel / shroud deflection ?
 
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I’m reasonably certain that the reason you’re getting shroud deflection as you pull the shroud back is because the o-ring on the muzzle barrel support has come off and is wedged between shroud and barrel - causing the deflection.

This is exactly what I experienced. Its also the reason I got rid of that o-ring - I got tired of replacing it.

It is a very tight tolerance to slide the shroud, especially the threads on the shroud, across that o-ring. You can lube that o-ring and slide the shroud on, but the next time you take the shroud off the o-ring will come off and do what you are experiencing.

If you screw the shroud on without the o-ring and push the shroud down, you will see very little “play” before you hear the shroud contact the top of the barrel support.

For this reason, I feel the o-ring is unnecessary. I WANT my barrel to free float within the shroud. I don’t want it pinned against the inside of the shroud via rubber - which will expand and contract via temperature changes. If you screw the shroud on tight, it is stiff enough to keep barrel centered. My accuracy improved when I deleted this o-ring. I’m a target shooter, so I have scores that showed the improvement.

In summary, its up to you if you want to keep that o-ring. I use a Huma Mod 30 moderator and experience no clipping without the o-ring.

Now back to your current situation. If the shroud is unscrewed from the threads and its not pulling straight back on the barrel, you are just fighting against a rubber o-ring. You should be able to twist and move shroud in any direction as you pull (left, right, up or down towards air bottle) because its just rubber that is offering the resistance.

-Ed
 
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EPG said:
I’m reasonably certain that the reason you’re getting shroud deflection as you pull the shroud back is because the o-ring on the muzzle barrel support has come off and is wedged between shroud and barrel - causing the deflection.

This is exactly what I experienced. Its also the reason I got rid of that o-ring - I got tired of replacing it.

It is a very tight tolerance to slide the shroud, especially the threads on the shroud, across that o-ring. You can lube that o-ring and slide the shroud on, but the next time you take the shroud off the o-ring will come off and do what you are experiencing.

If you screw the shroud on without the o-ring and push the shroud down, you will see very little “play” before you hear the shroud contact the top of the barrel support.

For this reason, I feel the o-ring is unnecessary. I WANT my barrel to free float within the shroud. I don’t want it pinned against the inside of the shroud via rubber - which will expand and contract via temperature changes. If you screw the shroud on tight, it is stiff enough to keep barrel centered. My accuracy improved when I deleted this o-ring. I’m a target shooter, so I have scores that showed the improvement.

In summary, its up to you if you want to keep that o-ring. I use a Huma Mod 30 moderator and experience no clipping without the o-ring.

Now back to your current situation. If the shroud is unscrewed from the threads and its not pulling straight back on the barrel, you are just fighting against a rubber o-ring. You should be able to twist and move shroud in any direction as you pull (left, right, up or down towards air bottle) because its just rubber that is offering the resistance.

-Ed
Click to expand...
Thanks! @EPG
 
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EPG said:
I’m reasonably certain that the reason you’re getting shroud deflection as you pull the shroud back is because the o-ring on the muzzle barrel support has come off and is wedged between shroud and barrel - causing the deflection.

This is exactly what I experienced. Its also the reason I got rid of that o-ring - I got tired of replacing it.

It is a very tight tolerance to slide the shroud, especially the threads on the shroud, across that o-ring. You can lube that o-ring and slide the shroud on, but the next time you take the shroud off the o-ring will come off and do what you are experiencing.

If you screw the shroud on without the o-ring and push the shroud down, you will see very little “play” before you hear the shroud contact the top of the barrel support.

For this reason, I feel the o-ring is unnecessary. I WANT my barrel to free float within the shroud. I don’t want it pinned against the inside of the shroud via rubber - which will expand and contract via temperature changes. If you screw the shroud on tight, it is stiff enough to keep barrel centered. My accuracy improved when I deleted this o-ring. I’m a target shooter, so I have scores that showed the improvement.

In summary, its up to you if you want to keep that o-ring. I use a Huma Mod 30 moderator and experience no clipping without the o-ring.

Now back to your current situation. If the shroud is unscrewed from the threads and its not pulling straight back on the barrel, you are just fighting against a rubber o-ring. You should be able to twist and move shroud in any direction as you pull (left, right, up or down towards air bottle) because its just rubber that is offering the resistance.

-Ed
Click to expand...
Time to update this thread:
After 2 unsuccessful attempts to correct the clipping issue I returned the gun for a full refund - bummer.

My take on the .25 sapphire problem is simple - the guns as packed in their hard case have very little cushion and if shipped standing on end they bounce around on their muzzle.
The picture shows a stock .30 zero DB on the left and the picture shows how much they tried to enlarge the sapphire .25 zero DB on the right so it would not clip
😒oh that’s sooo not right!

IMG_7240.jpeg

The good news is my .177 sapphire is a smoking laser beam ! And I feel fortunate it didn’t ride around on its nose for thousands of miles.
@Daystate - fix your hard cases so a gun can’t shift internally and rest on its muzzle during transit! See picture 2
@Daystate !!
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The way many airgun companies supply cases with their guns is a real shame! Every airgun in the last couple of years iv’e replaced the case so that i had 1 that the gun would not be damaged in! And most don’t allow for a scope and in their infinite wisdom cut the foam so the scope is in the bottom of the case. I have no idea why they are so stupid they should cut us a $100 break on price a stick the case where the sun dont shine!
 
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Gzman said:
@cavedweller - I’m wondering if that Wolverine sapphire in used guns for sale at Airguns of Arizona was yours.
Click to expand...
I saw that also - I’d bet it is, but I’d have to see the serial number to be sure. The oversized sapphire moderator opening is one clue and a scratch in shroud another if it wasn’t repaired?
That said at $2500. I was tempted to repurchase it and fix it myself properly because the Minelli stocks are incredible and unavailable.

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