Safety

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bubblerboy64

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Jul 25, 2018
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Pa, United States
There has been some discussion on another thread concerning a video showing some pesting where shots are taken which some of us think might be unsafe. 

Clearly if you read that thread there is some evidence of offense being taken on both sides. 

Two thoughts come to mind. If the shot looks to be unsafe for the benefit of all it should be discussed . Making statements to the affect that the shooters know what they are doing seems to me to be a rather inadequate explanation. On the other hand categorically condemning the shooter is neather fair or helpful. 

If you post a video I would assume you are looking for something more the a virtual pat on the back and or compliments on your shooting abilities. 

We all need to be reminded about if offense is taken because a shot is questioned with respect to its safety it probably was unsafe. BUT there is no need to be ugly about it either. 

We are all here to learn and we are all at different levels in our shooting skills I think it’s absolutely imperative that new shooters be informed and taught to question at least some of what is shown on these video’s and it doesn’t hurt for some of you experienced guys to be reminded and challenged.

The two fellows (the air gun hunters) have not posted . Seems like they should be the ones to comment either defending or admitting.

i for one have on more then one occasion made mistakes on safety issues and been reminded (nicely I might add) by my friends and fellow shooters. It’s humbling and embarrassing but if your ego is too big for it please consider that safety trumps all else and find something else to do. 


 
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DougT, did make a point and backed it up with images. This trend towards slugs is a good thing for some, but not all shooting situations. When I first started pesting I used a .22 rimfire I took a lot of chucks, but had to pass on as many. The round was too powerful to shoot around buildings and equipment. Going to PCP pesting opened up many places I could not previously hunt, why? Less noise, and energy levels 28 FPE v. 100 FPE. I accept the limitations of the pellets I shoot. Yes, on a good day with optimal conditions I’ve taken pigeons out to 90 plus yards. Does that mean I can do it in all conditions? No it doesn’t. The attraction to PCP pesting for me is that you can do it at moderate power levels. Once a PCP rifle starts to approach rimfire energy levels it loses its appeal to me. Might as well reach for my CZ452.

We as a community of shooters should not hesitate to call each other out in a respectful manner if we witness unsafe practices. We all know and should practice the mantra “know what is beyond your intended target”.
 
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And that's one thing none of us know unless we were there....what's beyond the target. I shoot off roofs all the time.....you know what's on the other side? Nothing but hundreds of acres woods and empty pasture.

When I shoot birds on utility lines, they are either metal ones where I always err on the high side. Or they are decommissioned other types of lines. Lots of farms I shoot at have lines running all over the place that are damaged and/or non-functional.

I also shoot at birds that are only a foot higher than the cow. A few inches high is a different story....not a risk I want to take.

Buildings in the backdrop? Well, depends on the building. If it's empty, dilapidated/damaged or not in use, no problem.

I could go on and on but I won't. Again, we weren't there. I doubt the Air Hunters will come on here and address every perceivably questionable shot in their videos.
 
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Bob, exactly!! I was'nt going to respond but I feel that I should because I was clearly called out. I grew up around cows on my grandfather dairy farm. I shot pigeons all the time with a 410 shotgun many times over the top of cows.. I Never once hit a cow or a building..I know that place very well and knew what was past my target. In addition I go to WY for two weeks each year and hunt praire dogs ( 1000's) and shoot around cows and structures all the time. Never an issue ever because I know what past my target.. I've stopped my hunting partner that I'm spotting for on several occasions due to cows walking into what I felt was not safe range. We look out for each other and what "could" happen. I would imagine Air Hunters would be the same.

With regards to my statement about a "utility" wire. Go back and "read" what I wrote.. "Pellets" ( not slugs) I didn't say one damn thing about slugs. I've killed hundred of Starlings off a "utility wire" and "pellets" don't damage them.. .

And Bob you are right about abandoned wires. My grandfather had lines / wires all over the place at his dairy farm that were once in use until he upgraded a particular operation and now abandoned.. Is this the same for Air Hunters? Who knows? They do.. 




 
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IMO only, just the fact we shoot air guns here that are far safer than powder burners makes us more likely to be safe downrange since down range is so much less. Shooting a 7mm mag at a deer 200 yards downrange in a clearing with open woods right behind the deer sure is a lot more dangerous, but hunters do similar every day of deer season.7mm mag are dangerous for what,,, a mile..?

As we all know, videos can be very deceiving, we don't know the area, see the prelude, preparation, nor accurately view depth of field or angles, or the whole picture at all. All one has to do is look at body cam footage of police compared to a utube phone video taken by bystanders started in the middle or end of the scene at a deceiving angle. Time after time we see how a short vid doesn't tell the whole story.

With that being said, I do agree, looks like some questionable shots, but I wasn't there and refuse to be the Monday morning 'pellet police'. We're talking about grown men that are responsible for their own actions.

We all have to make that judgement call before every shot and live with it. Most of us that started hunting at an early age have taken questionable shots at some point in our life, and learned from it without being scolded in front of thousands of people online. Shamming someone in social media as a preemptive strike is not the answer. If some really are really offended by the shots they see in online videos, a private message would have been more appropriate as all of us here already know all to well about risky back drops as do the guys in question. We never know who might be viewing the posts here and be an anti hunter/gunner and try to use this against all of us.

If someone felt like they just had to talk about this to warn all of us unaware shooters of a violator in our ranks,, maybe no names or screen shots of their vids, and have a general non specific to a member discussion, yes..?

JMO


 
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And that's one thing none of us know unless we were there....what's beyond the target. I shoot off roofs all the time.....you know what's on the other side? Nothing but hundreds of acres woods and empty pasture.

When I shoot birds on utility lines, they are either metal ones where I always err on the high side. Or they are decommissioned other types of lines. Lots of farms I shoot at have lines running all over the place that are damaged and/or non-functional.

I also shoot at birds that are only a foot higher than the cow. A few inches high is a different story....not a risk I want to take.

Buildings in the backdrop? Well, depends on the building. If it's empty, dilapidated/damaged or not in use, no problem.

I could go on and on but I won't. Again, we weren't there. I doubt the Air Hunters will come on here and address every perceivably questionable shot in their videos.
Click to expand...

I understand the controversy here . 

I would suggest that WE ALL try to not take offense and that we be both open minded and non judgmental. 

Bob I’ve questioned you about some of this and you have always answered my concerns more then adequately.
 
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I watched and do like their hunting videos(airhunters), but I have also noticed, especially with their most recent videos, there were some "iffy" shots that I, personally, would not have taken. But as with many of these situations, they do have experience and were the "eyes on the ground", so you give them the benefit of the doubt. But is it hard to argue that there were some shots taken that would have made it hard to justify to my 8 year-old son if he had watched the videos based on the principles that I instilled in him about never taking any shot without always considering what is in-front, behind and around the target. 



As a shooter/hunter, we need to always consider doubly the safety when shooting into buildings, the ricochets, pass-thru, missed and potential uncertainty of projectile flight paths. During my military past, I have witnessed first hand a 7.62mm machine gun(GPMG) round hit a pelvis bone and exit perpendicular to its flight path. If that doesn't scare you about the uncertainty of ricochets and flight paths after pass-thru, I don't know what will.




 
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Like everyone else I have seen things on some of these videos that made me wonder … but I didn't have all the facts so I kept my mouth shut. Actually there was only one video that really bothered me and it was one of those videos made in South Africa. A guy was shooting at a school and he said that school was not in that day. He was shooting pigeons mostly on the ground with a .22 cal R5M. In one scene you could see a few young people moving around probably trying to get to their next class in the background … looked to be about 30 yards away ... but they weren't in the direction he was shooting at. In my book that is assuming an awful lot ... with brick walls and young people moving around, you never know what might be coming around the corner or possibly a round ricocheting off the brick. I just had a real bad feeling after watching the video.
 
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Doug-T, I think most of us are extremely aware of safety being first. I am in your camp and on your side, as per my post above. On the other hand, we did not have eyes on the ground during those shots and we do not know what sort of a deal they had with the owner of the farm. Maybe the owner is ok with them potentially drilling a couple of holes on the silo's roof/walls due to misses/ricochet/pass-thru because they are in the process of replacing them anyways. Or maybe all the overhead lines are not in service anyways. Or maybe the owner said if you accidentally nail one of my cows, that's ok, we will have a nice steak dinner for everyone tonight. 



Point is, the ultimate responsibility lies with the person pulling the trigger. Even in the best circumstances, there's always a risk of unexpected ricochet/pass-thru flight path. From our perspective, it may seem certain shots are riskier and that a bunch of us certainly wouldn't have taken them, but maybe they are more comfortable with these shots and are willing to take the risks, and thus the responsibility for them should things not go their way. All it takes is a bad shot and some bad luck...



Another concern is that if we were judge without being there and on the ground when these shots were taken, we would only discourage people from sharing their hunting videos and experiences, for fear of being judged. Playing devil's advocate here...


 
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