I've read a couple of threads of guys calming the bark in their compacts by adding baffles. Seen a few comments that RTI Arms is in the process of making baffles. That got me thinking, one of the reasons I bought my Prophet performance was because it was short. I added a donny fl but it added an extra 5". It calmed the bark. Looks ok but not what I really want. I ordered some baffle kit from hajimoto that actually fit a hatsan. Hopefully with a little tweaking in i can get them to work. I was wondering if i should drill a rear vent hole in my shroud and if so how big of a hole do i drill?
RTI Prophet Performance shroud baffles
- Thread starter Jasonmc
- Start date
This is one of those questions that you can ask 50 different people and get 50 different answers. Since sound is a perception it varies in how different people perceive it.
Here’s my view:
In my experience you are just making more noise by venting the shroud. Every vented shroud I’ve encountered has created noise that is improved by taping over the hole to seal it off, or by adding foam inside the shroud in front of the vents to slow the gas escaping the vent holes.
You need baffles or a foam insert in your shroud to quiet it down.
The longer it takes all the gas to be relieved from the shroud the less energy it has and the quieter it is. The faster it is able to escape the more energy it has and the more noise it creates. Venting the shroud makes it escape faster.
Here’s my view:
In my experience you are just making more noise by venting the shroud. Every vented shroud I’ve encountered has created noise that is improved by taping over the hole to seal it off, or by adding foam inside the shroud in front of the vents to slow the gas escaping the vent holes.
You need baffles or a foam insert in your shroud to quiet it down.
The longer it takes all the gas to be relieved from the shroud the less energy it has and the quieter it is. The faster it is able to escape the more energy it has and the more noise it creates. Venting the shroud makes it escape faster.
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Yes.
I put five Daystate, Renegade/Pulsar baffles, along with a very short spring into my RTI Compact. Despite some "experts" here and other locations offerings, the baffles NEED to move to achieve the best sound suppression. Been there, tried that..!
Tests, by ear only and indoors only - Tatsu, Huma 30 (two sections) and a 0dB. The next test was with the Daystate baffles. By a large margin, the baffles were much...quieter, than any of the other three suppressors. I ran all of the addon suppressors again, (twice), just to verify what I thought I was hearing was correct. I even tried the Huma with "one" section, along with the internal baffles. The Huma dropped the sound a "little" more, but it's not worth the extra "shroud" length to me.
VERY curious to see of RTI comes out with, 1. a baffle kit, 2. will it actually quite the bark, and 3. will it be a fair cost to those of us that have already put out a good chunk of money for the RTI Compact.
And for what it might be worth, for those that may have a Prophet Performance, standard...no, the above method will not work. The "disc" that's on the end of the barrel is much too close to the end of the shroud. I was only able to get two baffles...and NO spring in place. AND, the baffles must be inserted backward to make them fit. Do the two baffles do anything ? Mmm, yea, a little bit, but no, it needs much more to make the sound acceptable from the full sized gun.
Mike
I put five Daystate, Renegade/Pulsar baffles, along with a very short spring into my RTI Compact. Despite some "experts" here and other locations offerings, the baffles NEED to move to achieve the best sound suppression. Been there, tried that..!
Tests, by ear only and indoors only - Tatsu, Huma 30 (two sections) and a 0dB. The next test was with the Daystate baffles. By a large margin, the baffles were much...quieter, than any of the other three suppressors. I ran all of the addon suppressors again, (twice), just to verify what I thought I was hearing was correct. I even tried the Huma with "one" section, along with the internal baffles. The Huma dropped the sound a "little" more, but it's not worth the extra "shroud" length to me.
VERY curious to see of RTI comes out with, 1. a baffle kit, 2. will it actually quite the bark, and 3. will it be a fair cost to those of us that have already put out a good chunk of money for the RTI Compact.
And for what it might be worth, for those that may have a Prophet Performance, standard...no, the above method will not work. The "disc" that's on the end of the barrel is much too close to the end of the shroud. I was only able to get two baffles...and NO spring in place. AND, the baffles must be inserted backward to make them fit. Do the two baffles do anything ? Mmm, yea, a little bit, but no, it needs much more to make the sound acceptable from the full sized gun.
Mike
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I've tried the taping of the breather holes idea, and have "not" found it to be as you say. The 0dB has very large slots in the body. I taped them closed with heavy duty duct tape. NO perceivable sound difference (just by ear). In line with the large slots in the 0dB, I opened the holes in one of my Tatsu suppressors to .13"...again, no perceivable sound difference from the small holes that Donny uses.
And for what it might be worth, the $20-$30, handheld decibel meters aren't worth the money that folks pay for them as far as "actual" sound collected and an "accurate" number shown on screen. This is from almost 20 years of testing sound in a REAL acoustic chamber.
Mike
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Well there you go.........................must be the spring
And I wouldn't have posted this if you hadn't started your post as you did. I would certainly love to see some proof of "the baffles NEED to move to achieve the best sound suppression."
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Well...like I said...or did you miss it, in all of it's black and white, above ?
Again...for your edification - "Been there, tried that !"
If you must know...I tried the combination (five baffles) with a stock Daystate spring, which is about four times longer than the short spring that I have in the shroud right now. It's a VERY tight fit. Which...as you "might" surmise", put a MUCH higher load on the baffles, requiring MUCH more pressure to overcome the spring pressure to move the baffles to allow the increase their chamber volume.
Long spring, a noticable (as noted...by ear) increase in sound/bark. Shorter spring (about 1/4 the length), more sound suppression, or a lighter bark. Had the same findings in the homemade baffling that I made for my BP17. No springs was louder than ballpoint pen springs between the baffles.
Is that enough of my test info to calm your curiosity ? I have a good feeling that you still don't buy into my test findings, and I really don't care. It's my testing, my rifle(s), my desire to calm the bark to not bother the neighbors. Has nothing to do with your doubts.
Mike
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Nope, not enough to "buy" into it. I guess you can put me into the corner with those "Experts" you called out as being wrong. If it has nothing to do with my doubts, or anyone else for that matter, why post it? And makes "digs" at those who disagree with you. Those springs in the baffles are there as a "spacer". Manufacturers use a spring to take up any differences between different guns. I'd bet that if someone else shot your gun both with and without the spring that you wouldn't be able to tell which was which (by just listening and not knowing if the spring is in or out) with any regularity.
Gotta wonder though what the "theory" is behind the moving baffles that is makes it quieter. All I would see it doing is possibly allowing the baffles to move into the path of a pellet and causing clipping. Pretty sure that's actually what happens when you see guys turning up MRods and then suddenly getting baffle strikes at high FPE. The plastic (and the spring) gives and allows movement, causing the strike.
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I'm with you here. I highly doubt they were ever designed to move. If so you would have more issues going on like baffles breaking, things getting maybe tilted and causing clipping, and also added noise from those baffles hitting everytime along with the spring. Plus the amount they move really can't be much especially enough to really make any real noticable difference. Volume of shroud doesn't change just shifting of the baffles.
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You are certainly funny !
How...can one disagree with something that you know NOTHING, not a clue...about ? Well, on second thought, I guess anyone can agree OR disagree with anything...but in reality, it just shows your foolishness, in this case.
And but again, you show up without a clue..! I measured the exit hole in all five bushings BEFORE...installing them into the shroud. At this point I now have four different weight pellets through the gun with...NO baffle clipping, sorry to say..! And being plastic, they'd show pretty good breakage I'd think if a fast moving object any one of them. Beside, with the tightness of them in the shroud...they stay in pretty good alignment.
So, there goes another one of your theories.
I can't help but to think you are just giving me a hard time because you have nothing better to do. No one can be as lacking in common sense as you seem to be.
You're just too far from reality...I'm out.
Mike
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Really puffing your chest out there aren't you. Attacking me because you can't show any physical reasoning as to why this would work. But I'm the one without common sense and out of touch with reality? Okay
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id just like to see the sysyem your using to sharewith us if it works please share pictures so we all can enjoy
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Hey Big...
Wow, did you get you feeling hurt about something ? You sure seem sensitive.
ALL...I did was "copy" what Daystate did...so THERE, Big guy.
Daystate would NOT...have spent the money to install a spring into their system if it didn't make a difference. Are you smarter than the Daystate engineers...I'd think not..!
I think that I DID...mention that with the baffles moving (or did you miss that !), each "chamber" that the baffle has created gets...larger as the air enters and expands each of the chambers, thus calming sudden inrush of high speed air. I did a similar expanding baffle chamber system to another gun. It works well in that gun...too. I didn't use the Daystate baffles though. Or is that beyond your understanding that it's possible.
There now...that wasn't so tough to understand now was it..?
Mike
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I did the same thing but I put the spring in first so the shroud could absorb more air before hitting the baffles. Not really sure if air even goes down the shroud as the barrel washer has an oring in it that seals up the tiny holes meant to vent air back down the shroud. Spring first, then 4 baffles is what I have and it is very much quieter than stock. I added a 3 section, 30 mm huma moderator and the fx and edgun guys that I shot with thought the gun was broke by how quiet it was. They had to dry fire it into the ground to confirm air was coming out.
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Long before anyone here even cared about RTI’s, I was experimenting with mine. Before slug barrels and getting a reg to function properly, I was first concerned with sound. I hate making short guns long and wannabe sniper guy look of silencers. I played with a series of baffles and even a spring. I used a Marauder kit and modified it but it had some drawbacks. I wound up building a baffle and a series of chambers on my lathe and that’s what stayed in the gun. It was the most effective and zero effect on accuracy with all projectiles at all distances. As for the shroud venting question, yes, you vent your shroud. A series of tiny holes. But don’t let the sum of all the tiny holes exceed your caliber size.
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RTI is NOT making a baffle system.
An alternative to adding a moderator onto either an empty, or baffle-with-innards shroud, on the COMPACT is to purchase the shroud for the STANDARD and populate the shroud with a simple spacer + washer setup.
You'll have over 8" of internal shroud volume to work with while only increasing the gun's OAL by 120mm (4.7"). The 4.7" is LESS that any moderator.
An alternative to adding a moderator onto either an empty, or baffle-with-innards shroud, on the COMPACT is to purchase the shroud for the STANDARD and populate the shroud with a simple spacer + washer setup.
You'll have over 8" of internal shroud volume to work with while only increasing the gun's OAL by 120mm (4.7"). The 4.7" is LESS that any moderator.
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Simple logic suggests that movable components will dampen sound better. Like foam or spring-loaded baffles/washers.
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