RTI Prophet .22

3, 10 shot groups @53 yards. Power still around 51fpe. Winds 5-10mph from right to left. 

30 consecutive shots

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"Dimes" are true to scale dimes. 

Pellets straight from the tin, and what a rough tin it is-nearly every pellet has a mangled skirt, some REALLY bad. 

I think this gun is going to do impressive things at 100 yards. 
 
Franklink, how's the cocking effort at this power level? 

Hopefully not near as hard as Berry's 30 caliber, right??!!

I haven't shot Barry's .30 so don't have that reference point to compare to. 

At 50ish FPE this .22 requires some effort to cock. I have no idea what the exact pounds required are and I'm pretty sure it's higher than the max that my trigger pull gauge is capable of. 

I'd guess that it is around the effort required to cock straight-pull bolt guns like the Discovery, Marauder, and that BSA Good Star that I reviewed earlier this year. 

You can give it a try at the State FT match here in a few weeks and see what you think. 


 
for cocking effort, that's a function of the hammer spring tension. I de-tuned mine from 180 bar and a lot of tension, (Monster redesign tune) to basic stock. Waiting on my 3 tins of monsters, (Looking at you AoA :) ). With the tension backed off of the hammer cocking effort is negligible, (less than pushing the pellet into the breach). To get power without cocking effort you'd have to run the reg above 180 with less tension, (provided that the hammer has enough energy to open the valve); i haven't tried that. 

I'm dialing down the 18 grains from 1010 fps, a little more tonight to see if my grouping gets better, i'm at less than 1" at 50 but i know the gun will do better... and, don't laugh, cleaning the barrel. 

With the 18's i did hit a traffic cone at 190 yds today 4 out of 6 times in wind lol (8' of holdover and one full cone off center...)
 
For Steve and anyone else curious about the cocking effort......

Been thinking for a few hours how I could somehow measure it to give someone a better idea of force required, not using subjective terms. 

I checked the specs on my Lyman trigger gauge and it said max 12#. I didn't want to overstress it either...... 

Came up with this......

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Still less than ideal but at least some sort of data. 

The wife's dumbbells are marked 5# each. I tried it first with two and couldn't get it to cock. 

It would, however, cock with a 5# dumbbell combined with 1 gallon of water (which the internet says weighs 8.34lbs). 

So, my best guess at cocking effort @ 50fpe....... more than 10lbs and less than 13.34lbs. 

I played with the angle a bit, and also have the loop of the rope not quite on the cocking handle but rather the shaft, so it'd be a little more accurate 1/2inch further out. 

Also gave the gun a very slight bounce to simulate cocking by hand (like we would when cocking the gun-at least I know I don't creep up on the cocking handle with slowly increasing effort). 

It's not a perfect method, but I was pleased to see that I didn't have to hang two 25 pounders on there to get it to cock. 
 
Well, I just put 9 mags through the gun (108 shots), over the chrono, and at paper at 53 yards. 1 mag per group. 

Pressure from 260-115 bar. Reg pressure still @160 bar from before. 

I'll do some data plots and get the string analysis posted later this evening. 

Cursory glance looks like 72, 50-52fpe shots "on the reg", then the fps goes up to roughly 980 for about one magazine, then comes down to 50-52fpe for another mag, then drops off a cliff. 

So, six good mags, another two with a bit bigger spread, and then Wiley coyote and an anvil. 

(The spread isn't great, even for the 72 "on the reg" shots.)
 
So the reg isn’t that great then?

I wouldn't make that claim yet. This is just my first attempts at a tune. If you followed my Red Wolf review you know that I'm willing to go down a rabbit hole to get the most out of a gun and its tune. (There was nothing wrong with the RWs consistency, I just needed to create a 20fpe power level for a .22 gun, I was in the programming multiple times and ended up with a pretty consistent 300shot, 20fpe tune). 

So the reg isn’t that great then?

I think the reg is fine. He just has it tuned on the downslope. Either by accident or on purpose. A little more HS and she will come off the reg nicely.



Yep, just more time with a chrono and the adjustments. 

Hello 

RTI recommendation for reg is 170 to 180 bar with hammer set to 1010 to 1070 for 25 grain 22 cal redesign pellets. This is where the gun and barrel are in harmony with the tune. 

Rob

Thanks Robert. This will be extremely helpful information in the continued optimization of the gun. Much appreciated.

And yes, I am still planning on posting the analysis of today's testing. I share the entire process in my reviews. 
 
Franklink how are the edges on the prophet, are they sharp. I heard that where your hand rides on the gun when holding onto to the pistol grip there is a sharp edge there. I’m really looking hard at the 25 cal.

I've not had the impression of sharp edges with how I'm holding the gun when shooting from a bipod and rear bag. 
 
As promised.......

PLEASE NOTE: This was a testing session. I am learning the gun and sharing that experience through the documentation that I do here on the forum. Poor strings like these often happen when messing with the adjustments and settings of a gun. Going through this process teaches the user what the gun does, and doesn't like. The information collected today will be used to arrive at a more optimal tune. 

First chronograph string, 9 full magazines for 108 shots. Bottle pressure reached the current regulator pressure of 160bar at shot #72. 

Each magazine was shot at the same aim point at 53 yards. Once that group started, scope was left alone, but between each group I was clicking here and there to shift groups closer to aim point. I'll attach that pic at the end. So there will be a pic of 108 consecutive shots on paper, 12 shots/group. Good test of a gun, although hard for the shooter to make that many good shots in a row (especially when trying to keep the gun over the top of the eyes of the chrono without shooting it)

Starting pressure was 260 bar. 

240 bar after shot #12

225 bar after shot #24

210 bar after shot #36

190 bar after shot #48

175 bar after shot #60

160 bar after shot #72

145 bar after shot #84

130 bar after shot #96

115 bar after shot #108

The first shot of the day was low fps. I've seen this with lots of regulated guns, even high priced ones. The gun had been sitting for about 24hrs at this point. 

I'm also going to show ALL the data plotted out, in various ways. 

This is many more shots than we can realistically expect to get at this power level, at least if the goal is consistency. I intentionally shot past the reg pressure, hoping to see how the valving, hammer tension, and regulator pressure all work in this particular gun.

This is a long string and it looks bad. (I will put more effort into a tighter spread, I'm pretty sure it will be possible, especially with AOA's owner adding the valuable information from RTI about how to tune for the 25.4 MRDs.) Furthermore, I was using a tin of pellets where most of them looked like this:

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yep, pretty mangled skirts. I was hoping to use up these rough pellets for tuning purposes, vs accuracy testing. BUT I suspect some of the large ES issues can be attributed to really shady pellets.

First off, data for shots 1-100

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Shots 2-72

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Shots 2-60

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Analysis

Generally we can see that the fps rises after shot 72, which happens to be when it came off the reg. There are also some outliers really wreaking havoc with the consistency, for example shots #1, #13, #49, and #61 were low fps. 

I'm betting that first shot being low won't go away, even with a better tin of pellets and a better tune. Some regulated guns just do that. I do think that I can get it more consistent though. From RTI (per Robert), I should be looking at a reg pressure of more like 170-180 to be rocking these Monster RDs in the >1000fps range to make the gun happy. It should be easy to get there, and I'm guessing it's going to take more hammer tension in addition to the bump in the reg pressure (that's how it behaved when I bumped the reg up from 130 to 150 and then again from 150-160.....it needs more hammer tension for each new reg pressure). 

I also think a less $hi77y tin of pellets should improve the spread. 

So, goal for the next time I have a chance to work with the gun: tighter ES through increased reg pressure, increased hammer tension, and non-mangled pellets. 

I'll share it all and post a full string demonstrating the results of my plan (you know what they say about a plan though, "The best-laid schemes of mice and men.........."

Oh yeah, here are the shots above, on paper, @ 53 yards, WITH those junky pellets. (the last 5 or 6 shots were hitting so low that they were below the paper so technically there are only about 102 or so shots on here). Dime target/aim points are true to size (about 0.7inches). Shots were taken just holding center of dime, best I could. 

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When you tune that gun on the knee, your first shot probably won’t be as slow. Right now you are tuned on the downslope so you are already lacking optimum hammer strike. When the reg creeps a little it’s way worse. It takes 5 minutes to find the max speed for your current reg setting and only 2 minutes to back it off around 20fps. I know that batch of pellets are junk but there is no sense wasting them on a bad tune.
 
....... I know that batch of pellets are junk but there is no sense wasting them on a bad tune.

Oh come on now, I enjoy this enough that any shot pellet is not a wasted pellet. 

I've never understood whacking the hell outta the valve, harder than necessary. It's hard on the gun, the cocking effort and the air consumption. Since I started this craziness with a hand pump I've liked the idea of efficiency. My general approach is to hit the hammer as lightly as possible for a decent shot count and consistent string at desired fps. I've got the light hammer and decent shot count but consistency isn't there so will revisit as previously explained. 
 
It is amazing how much the cocking effort changes when you jump up 20b on the reg. My RTI is not a Priest or a Prophet. It’s a hybrid of the two plus some of my ideas. I call it the Apostle. When I pulled my slug barrel and dropped the reg back down to shoot pellets out of my pellet barrel, the first thing I noticed was how sweet it was to cock. I definitely understand you not wanting to punish a valve but you have entered the 160+ bar territory. It’s game on now. I’m sure they built the gun to take it. We will definitely find out from the power hungry guys that run that 180b EBR tune for a year.
 
Here is my 25 cal Prophet with a fix for the stock now fully adjustable similar to what's available for the FX Impact from Kraford and Lypt . This is all aluminum and stainless steel . I wrapped the blades of the stock with 23 mm road bike inner tubes for extra grip and comfort .I also wrapped the stock pistol grip with Racket ball tape to build up the palm swell. Also added same racket tape to create a more comfortable cheek area. Planning to change to a black leather cap style cheek area cover .. Also added a neoprene cover for the carbon bottle for protection.
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Here is my 25 cal Prophet with a fix for the stock now fully adjustable similar to what's available for the FX Impact from Kraford and Lypt . This is all aluminum and stainless steel . I wrapped the blades of the stock with 23 mm road bike inner tubes for extra grip and comfort .I also wrapped the stock pistol grip with Racket ball tape to build up the palm swell. Also added same racket tape to create a more comfortable cheek area. Planning to change to a black leather cap style cheek area cover .. Also added a neoprene cover for the carbon bottle for protection.

That's making it your own right there. 

I've installed a similar winged butt "pad" on a springer and it equated to much more consistent shouldering and therefore point of impact. 

You made a nice addition.