• *Effective 3/27/2024 - The discussion of the creation, fabrication, or modification of airgun moderators is prohibited. The discussion of any "adapters" used to convert an airgun moderator to a firearm silencer will result in immediate termination of the account.*
  • The AGN App is ready! Search "Airgun Nation" in your App store. To compliment this new tech we've assigned the "Threads" Feed & "Dark" Mode. To revert back click HERE.

RPM equal important as twist rate?

Changes at distanced? Not really. Imagine that 9mm bullet in the linked video above. How long did it take for the spin to decay while spinning on the ice? It had it's nose in the ice and still took many seconds. Time of flight of most projectiles even fired at high angles is less than a few seconds. Not much decay takes place over a few seconds. The spin-drift calculations don't even consider angular velocity decay because it is essentially a rounding error. If the projectile leaves the muzzle spinning at 20k RPM for all intents and purposes it impacts the target at any range still spinning at 20k RPM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Airgun-hobbyist
Sort of on topic --- projectile RPM. Have any of you personally witnessed something like this? A bullet spinning like a top after being fired at a sheet of ice.

It would be cool, if it really related to stability, if you could have a mark on the bullet base that a tachometer could read and see what rpm it starts to de-stabilize.
Wonder if that would relate to regular flight ballistics.
 
Now with all this taken into consideration who makes the best barrels for the Impact M3 and the delta Wolf ?
Looking for Slug barrels with different twist rates.
Also are the twist rates in Cm or Inches ?
You mistaking something.
Shall the "best barrel makers" know what is the M3 or DW?
It is not working that way. It is a manufacturing process. If you don't understand just don't worry about , it is a lill longer story.
To pick a good barrel you may have to buy a dozen - or two dozen barrels, test every each and pick the best that is working for you.
I don't think you have enough money to get a "one piece and that is to be called a best" off the shelf.
And btw, what is wrong with the FX or DW barrels?
Not arguing, just my 2c.
 
You mistaking something.
Shall the "best barrel makers" know what is the M3 or DW?
It is not working that way. It is a manufacturing process. If you don't understand just don't worry about , it is a lill longer story.
To pick a good barrel you may have to buy a dozen - or two dozen barrels, test every each and pick the best that is working for you.
I don't think you have enough money to get a "one piece and that is to be called a best" off the shelf.
And btw, what is wrong with the FX or DW barrels?
Not arguing, just my 2c.
Look, he just wants some advice. Find out what slugs he intends to shoot and recommend a couple of good makers and an appropriate twist rate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Elkins-Air-Gunner
It would be cool, if it really related to stability, if you could have a mark on the bullet base that a tachometer could read and see what rpm it starts to de-stabilize.
Wonder if that would relate to regular flight ballistics.
Here you go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigHUN
You mistaking something.
Shall the "best barrel makers" know what is the M3 or DW?
It is not working that way. It is a manufacturing process. If you don't understand just don't worry about , it is a lill longer story.
To pick a good barrel you may have to buy a dozen - or two dozen barrels, test every each and pick the best that is working for you.
I don't think you have enough money to get a "one piece and that is to be called a best" off the shelf.
And btw, what is wrong with the FX or DW barrels?
Not arguing, just my 2c.
Ok,
I've only been into Airgunning for a couple years...
So it's not like Long Range Target firearm barrel manufactures Like Lilja or Lothar-Walther ..

Just thought someone made Custom Competition barrels.
I remember seeing there was a person in S.Africa that was producing specialty barrels...
 
Here you go.
Does it work for skirted pellets, since their shapes are much different than a typical flat base or boattail bullet.
Just curious, I shoot 50 yards or less so my need is pretty moot. The gun manufacturer’s recommendation is typically right on for any of my guns and needs.
 
Look, he just wants some advice. Find out what slugs he intends to shoot and recommend a couple of good makers and an appropriate twist rate.
Thank You
Yes I know Firearm barrels, twist rates and such..
I don't know Airgun barrels and who makes the best ones or what brands to stay away from.
Where is the best place to buy them ?
 
Does it work for skirted pellets, since their shapes are much different than a typical flat base or boattail bullet.
Just curious, I shoot 50 yards or less so my need is pretty moot. The gun manufacturer’s recommendation is typically right on for any of my guns and needs.
I'm going to GUESS here. Since pellets are dual stabilized by both drag and rotation, over stabilization in pellets would occur earlier and cause spiraling in extreme cases. Diana tends to pick twist rates around 1:18 and those calculations look marginal for your average pellet SO... I'd guess numbers between 0.8 and 1.0 would be good values for pellets? Read the article at that link for more info.
 
As for gyroscopic stabilization and pellets, most barrels are too fast for pellets. We can get away with it due to the hi drag. Over stabilized pellet flight get mitigated by the drag. So nose up attitude tends to get replaced by corkscrew flight path. This is exacerbated by poor center of form or deformation. The real intent of spin stabilization for pellet came from a need to mitigate muzzle blast effects on the pellet. The pellet is basically a lead shuttlecock. If you've ever played bad miten on a windy day, recall what happens in a hard tail wind. Muzzle blast is a hard tail wind, effectively. Spin helps mitigate that. Slug, different story. I thing a .177 thru .25 would be better suited with a twist rat of 1:19 - 1:22 with max velocity of Mach .75 or under but no mor than Mach .85. Slugs on the other hand, 1:18 probably a bit slow.

I make quite a few TJ's barrel for folks. I sure you all have heard enough about them over the years. They're used by just about any air gunner that has endeavored to rebarrel an air gun. I prefer them over LW because I've found them to be more consistant from one blank to the next. Not downing them just sharing my experience. Most recently, I did a barrel for a gentleman down in South America. It fit a Impact M3 in .30 cal. It is a .294/.300, 1:26. Chocked. He reported shooting .5" groups at 100 with a 44.7gr at 930. I can recall if it was pellet or JSB slug, I think they weigh really close to the same IIRC. It is carbon fiber sleeved. Epoxy not tensioned. Last year, did another for Preist II in .30. He claimed he was getting 1.125" at 190yrds(175m). That guy is a little gregarious and braggadosious so, there's that. I take them at their word. Many other .25s and .22s.
My methods are a bit different than most. A lot of time and effort goes into the setup. I tend to run things with a tighter tolerance than most manufacturers, with regard to throat and lead length. I focus very intently on parallelism, on 2 planes of reference, and concentricity to the bore. Same with the crown and muzzle threads if those are desired. Everything is true to the bore. I've had DIYers come to me with a barrel that wouldn't perform. I have them set it upon my machine to show me how they went about it. Many will simply chuck one in a 3 jaw and go to work. Crow isn't concentric nor perpendicular. I can't even get into the issues with the other end. I could geek on this for quite a while. Last thing. Someone mentioned going through dozens of barrels to find the perfect one. That probably being nice. Perfect is a tall order to fill in a field that can be very subjective. F class shooters who build their own guns often shoot an entire lifetime and find 3 or 4 barrels that they wish would never wear out. That's after nearly a hundred barrels or more.
 
An over stabilized bullet will not pitch over at its apogee. Very much like an over spun football in flight. With powder burners that is significant because the bullet tends to pancake as it encounters changes in air density while in flight like skipping a flat rock on water. With an air gun, the pellet or slug does not fly fast enough. Pellets have another issue. Pellets are primarily drag stabilized and spun too fast, the centrifugal stabilizing force will interact and fight with the drag stabilization from the diabolic shape and create spiraling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iAMzehTOASTY1
Just a note here since others have used a 9 mm parabellum as an example. That cartridge was designed to allow officers behind the battle line to provide harassing fire from their sidearm. That cartridge specifies a 1 in 10" twist. That rate over-stabilizes the bullet on purpose. The correct twist rate should be 1 in 16" and changing the barrel is my very first mod to all my 9 mm pistols.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iAMzehTOASTY1