Rimfire vs PCP

[thomasair]

Who said it doesn’t group?

If I had a 6mm PPC that shot 1” groups at 100y and a pellet gun that shot 1” groups...are they the same? I guess so if groups are meaningful and where the group lands isn’t.

Now shoot them for score in any amount of wind at 100y. Which do you think would do better? Are they still the same?

Comparing projectiles of sizably different BC by seeing how they group isn’t sensible unless accurately placing a projectile isn’t important. To be useful tools, rifles have to hit what they are aiming for.

But, yes....rifles that can shoot good scores will also group well.

Mike 

 

[bandg]

I think this has progressed to simply a semantic issue at this point. 

"But, yes….rifles that can shoot good scores will also group well." Good grouping ability is a necessity to shoot accurately and seems like the foundation. Introduce distance along with any wind and consistency, both of the power plant and the projectile, becomes at least as important as grouping ability. One must have both to consistently be able to hit a target at longer distance in any condition.

I reach for a rimfire if I need to hit a target consistently at longer ranges than I usually shoot my airguns. Not because it isn't possible that the air gun could hit the target, but because I'm confident the rimfire will hit the target.

 

[SDellinger]

I use airguns where power burners would be too much power and noise like dairies. I can shoot birds out to 150 yards with my Royals so distance isn't the problem. I think 300 or 400 shots with a 22rf would bother the cows and also the hurdsman.

 

[bandg]

"distance isn't the problem"

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Guest]

I use airguns where power burners would be too much power and noise like dairies. I can shoot birds out to 150 yards with my Royals so distance isn't the problem. I think 300 or 400 shots with a 22rf would bother the cows and also the hurdsman.

It is really different story can you shoot birds out to 150yds and can you humanely dispatch birds out to those distances. I can shoot pingbong balls at 200m with my 257texan at 90% hit rate but I would never shoot animal with an airgun at 150yd. To me that is just unnecessary animal cruelty and far from pestcontrol and really far from hunting. 

 

[Khornet]

Well, we upland bird hunters, if you shoot as poorly as I do, often see a game bird slain by a single pellet- the famous Golden BB. So I think all these way-past-Fort-Mudge shots at birds don't require fine shot placement, and don't pose ethics problems. A gray squirrel, on the other hand.....you better be in the kill zone and that's that. They are very tenacious of life. Don't know about other critters, but Orion's iguana videos make me think they are much like squirrels, and you must hit the off switch or not at all.

 

[SDellinger]

I use airguns where power burners would be too much power and noise like dairies. I can shoot birds out to 150 yards with my Royals so distance isn't the problem. I think 300 or 400 shots with a 22rf would bother the cows and also the hurdsman.

It is really different story can you shoot birds out to 150yds and can you humanely dispatch birds out to those distances. I can shoot pingbong balls at 200m with my 257texan at 90% hit rate but I would never shoot animal with an airgun at 150yd. To me that is just unnecessary animal cruelty and far from pestcontrol and really far from hunting.

Pest control at daries means getting rid of the pest. If a few birds I shoot at long distance don't die right away is ok with the owner. They won't be eating any more grain or pooping all over the equipment. Pest control is not hunting. Try it sometime instead of shooting ping-pong balls.

 

[crazyhorse]

Rimfire vs PCP: Update

Getting my Omega filled tomorrow so I should get out to the range next week. Winds have been high this week and things should settle out with maybe some 12 mph gusts next week..dunno.

I can deal with 12,,,,25 mph was just to much.

 

[Raden1942]

My cz 455 American is the most accurate gun I own. I don't have a tier 1 airgun like fx or edgun or daystate but it would be pretty hard to beat the groups I get with cci standard velocity. I think it's close to half inch groups at 100 and I have the sporter hunting barrel. It's an amazing gun. Those groups really get larger with bulk ammo tho. Remington still shoots 1 moa. Not bad. My marauder 25 gets a little over 1 moa at 100 when I actually have it running right

 

[Guest]

My cz 455 American is the most accurate gun I own. I don't have a tier 1 airgun like fx or edgun or daystate but it would be pretty hard to beat the groups I get with cci standard velocity. I think it's close to half inch groups at 100 and I have the sporter hunting barrel. It's an amazing gun. Those groups really get larger with bulk ammo tho. Remington still shoots 1 moa. Not bad. My marauder 25 gets a little over 1 moa at 100 when I actually have it running right

Are we talking 10shot groups here? I still havent seen any sub moa 100yd airgun and FX, daystate, edgun etc well if tier1 means best possible.. Those are actually really far from that if you have enough deep pockets you surely can get alot better. 

 

[KitCarson16]

I have some nice air rifles. All of my PCP guns will shoot pellet on top of pellet at 35 yards, All of them will shoot a single ragged hole at 50 yards, A couple of them will shoot a .60 to a .75 group at 100 yards on a day with no wind. (RAW and my Commander, both have polygon barrels)

I have some nice .22 LR guns also, Including several famous CZ rifles.

None of the .22 LR can compete as far as accuracy against the air rifles. My RAW Chassis regularly shoots a little less than one inch at 100 yards, Again I own no .22 LR guns that can compete. One CZ will print 1.25 at 100 yards, the rest of them struggle to keep it around 1.50 inches. 

Try this little experiment. Set up a target at 25 yards. Almost any PCP will put pellet on pellet at this range. Almost no .22 LR will do the same. Go give it a try and you will see. 



Cheers

Kit

 

[bandg]

I have some nice air rifles. All of my PCP guns will shoot pellet on top of pellet at 35 yards, All of them will shoot a single ragged hole at 50 yards, A couple of them will shoot a .60 to a .75 group at 100 yards on a day with no wind. (RAW and my Commander, both have polygon barrels)

I have some nice .22 LR guns also, Including several famous CZ rifles.

None of the .22 LR can compete as far as accuracy against the air rifles. My RAW Chassis regularly shoots a little less than one inch at 100 yards, Again I own no .22 LR guns that can compete. One CZ will print 1.25 at 100 yards, the rest of them struggle to keep it around 1.50 inches. 

Try this little experiment. Set up a target at 25 yards. Almost any PCP will put pellet on pellet at this range. Almost no .22 LR will do the same. Go give it a try and you will see. 



Cheers

Kit

Just the EXACT opposite for me. My .22LR's will almost all group just as well as the airguns at any closer distance and noticeably better at longer range.

 

[Solo1]

Ok well i said I’d report back when i got my maverick, finally arrived from dec 2 order date, and must say my initial impression is very positive but I couldn’t tune it to exactly where i thought i would be able to after watching matts launch vid. So far I’ve got it shooting 27 gr h&n slugs @ 904 fps with a sd of 2. This is the first mag dump sitting on my quad shooting off styx @ 50 yds. Will report back when i shoot off bench @ 100. Oh the black is 1.25” and that main group measures .5”

 

[bckyrdsnpr52]

I was shooting my Edgun long .22 against my Tikks T1x last week. At 50yrds. With slugs, my Edgun shot as good or better groups tha the Tikka. 

 

[Glem.Chally]

I use airguns where power burners would be too much power and noise like dairies. I can shoot birds out to 150 yards with my Royals so distance isn't the problem. I think 300 or 400 shots with a 22rf would bother the cows and also the hurdsman.

It is really different story can you shoot birds out to 150yds and can you humanely dispatch birds out to those distances. I can shoot pingbong balls at 200m with my 257texan at 90% hit rate but I would never shoot animal with an airgun at 150yd. To me that is just unnecessary animal cruelty and far from pestcontrol and really far from hunting.

Pest control at daries means getting rid of the pest. If a few birds I shoot at long distance don't die right away is ok with the owner. They won't be eating any more grain or pooping all over the equipment. Pest control is not hunting. Try it sometime instead of shooting ping-pong balls.

Airgun hunting/pesting isn't legal in Finland from what I can tell. Makes it easy to finger wag the same way in multiple threads. 

 

[Fischer]

I have already seen things with air rifles AFTER having the FX BOSS .30 with smooth groove. Better than most rimfire rifles but by that time the PCP pressure to maintain multiple shots without continuation dragged me down and I SOLD the thing in a package deal which included an older vortexed HW30 .177 I have now! I love the thing!

However, to me I prefer the accurate powder approach after or around 100 yards because pellets are hollow and bullets are not.

 

[JungleShooter]

It is really different story can you shoot birds out to 150yds and can you humanely dispatch birds out to those distances. I can shoot pingbong balls at 200m with my 257texan at 90% hit rate but I would never shoot animal with an airgun at 150yd.

To me that is just unnecessary animal cruelty and far from PEST CONTROL and really far from HUNTING.

Pest control at daries means getting rid of the pest.

If a few birds I shoot at long distance don't die right away is ok with the owner. They won't be eating any more grain or pooping all over the equipment.

PEST CONTROL is not HUNTING.

To SDellinger and jiikuu — and anybody else caring to reply:

We are talking about shooting wild animals. Would you mind defining the two things for me: HUNTING and PEST CONTROL?



Please, excuse my ignorance. You see, I didn't come to airgunning with a lot of background with guns, and I lived most of my life in two countries where shooting wild animals is extremely rare, so help me out here. Where are the differences between hunting and pest control?



Because in both:

▪I kill a "wild" animal, i.e., it's not a pet nor raised for the slaughter house.

▪I get a benefit from the killing (less damage to my farm, more meat in the freezer, fun). The animal gets no benefit.

▪I have a right to kill. The animal has a right to die (bec. I paid for the hunting tag, or I waited for the season or went to the legally correct location, or I obeyed the law defining the animal as a pest).



Just wondering. Thanks.

Matthias

 

[Guest]

Well my moral says causing unnecessary suffering to any animal pest or not pest is not OK. If you think its ok then something really went wrong with you. 

Yes in Finland airgun hunting is not allowed and our hunting laws are really strict and energy requirments are big.. Pigeon for example is on E0 class meaning minium requirment is 100joules, deer requires 2000joules with minium 6gram bullet or 1700joules with 8gram bullet as E100 meaning messured from 100meters. Yep you dont need anywhere close to those numbers but on sametime we dont really have injured animals running around. Worst pest specie in EU is raccoondog orginally from asia but even if its rated as pest and there is alot of goverment paid projects to dispatch them yet you still need to do it with 300J+ from muzzle and you still will lose your lisence, guns and so on by breaking laws.

Im by far not against any hunting or pestcontrol done via airguns or any other methods but Im 110% against any sort of risk taking for not meeting ethical killshot due overly extended ranges or courage ppl to do so there is simply no reason to do so except 100% lack of respect towards nature and animals.

And finally airgun pesting is allowed in here as long as its pest specie and its done inside of building as its really usefull in barns etc. 

 

[Guest]

It is really different story can you shoot birds out to 150yds and can you humanely dispatch birds out to those distances. I can shoot pingbong balls at 200m with my 257texan at 90% hit rate but I would never shoot animal with an airgun at 150yd.

To me that is just unnecessary animal cruelty and far from PEST CONTROL and really far from HUNTING.

Pest control at daries means getting rid of the pest.

If a few birds I shoot at long distance don't die right away is ok with the owner. They won't be eating any more grain or pooping all over the equipment.

PEST CONTROL is not HUNTING.

To SDellinger and jiikuu — and anybody else caring to reply:

We are talking about shooting wild animals. Would you mind defining the two things for me: HUNTING and PEST CONTROL?



Please, excuse my ignorance.

You see, I didn't come to airgunning with a lot of background with guns, and I lived most of my life in two countries where shooting wild animals is extremely rare, so help me out here. Where are the differences between hunting and pest control?

Because in both:

I kill a "wild" animal, i.e., it's not a pet nor raised for the slaughter house.

I get a benefit from the killing (less damage to my farm, more meat in the freezer, fun). The animal gets no benefit.

I have a right to kill. The animal has a right to die (bec. I paid for the hunting tag, or I waited for the season or went to the legally correct location, or I obeyed the law defining the animal as a pest).



Just wondering. Thanks.

Matthias

Pest control is killing animals that cause harm, mainly invasive species and in agriculture to protect your animals or plants can be problematic native species also.

Hunting is killing game rated animals for meat, fur, trophys or all. 

Alot of ppl tend to disvalue worth of life of pest animals but to me if I need to take life of anything I always do it with least suffering as possible gameanimal or pest. But due different laws around the world its mainly discussion of moral and ethics but to me its really damn hard to see why would anyone make anything suffer more than what is necessary. 

 

[bandg]

jiikuu

"something really went wrong with you"

Sounds incredibly arrogant and judgemental to me. IMO, you have no right to judge another person based on such information as discussed here.

Hunting is one topic, pest elimination another. And I believe VERY FEW people want to cause suffering, though there is the occasional psychopath out there. That's where the "unnecessary" part comes in. Hunting for food or simply because one enjoys hunting suggests that the person should employ all possible means to make a clean humane kill. Pesting is a different world, eliminating animals causing damage in one form or another. And I still believe that most people doing that will try to make a clean kill, even though elimination of the pest takes precedence for most.

And no matter how good you think you are, you will miss. Shooting paper and missing is one thing, shooting at a live target and missing even a small amount can result in a wounded animal. It doesn't make the person bad, it means they missed. But for some, shooting anything living for any reason seems to be a problem.