2019 Pyramyd Air Cup allowed .357 in the 100yard bench rest event. My mistake using the EBR acronym.
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Rimfire vs PCP
- Thread starter crazyhorse
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2019 Pyramyd Air Cup allowed .357 in the 100yard bench rest event. My mistake using the EBR acronym.
For the sake of comparison....here’s a rimfire card shot at an actual outdoor match at 50m by a top shooter. I think his lowest score of this match was a 250 21x.
Mike
I've seen a few cards like that (not mine)..Ours was a club shoot more for fun but we did travel some....from Calif up to Oregon (FT) and BR matches ...then Arizona for FT.
My thoughts on .30 cal is just ammo to beat the wind...I'm not going there. I'll do my best to read the wind.
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100 yards maybe competitive between the two even though I haven’t been able to shoot PCP much, but I can tell already there is not going to be much of a contest shooting PCP compared to the Rim-X or Vudoo at 200 and 250. The rimfires are pretty solid at 250, pcp I’m still working on 80.
as far as ammo goes it kind of depends on what you pay, CCI sv yeah probably going to be inconsistent, but better quality ammo and typically get better results. I shot 39 rounds over the chrono the other day of center x and had a SD of 5. Pretty solid in my opinion
as far as ammo goes it kind of depends on what you pay, CCI sv yeah probably going to be inconsistent, but better quality ammo and typically get better results. I shot 39 rounds over the chrono the other day of center x and had a SD of 5. Pretty solid in my opinion
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All I know is I collected .22 rimfires for years,all shoot good all are were less expensive than air rifles...how many air guns can shoot 1" groups at 100 yds?They are different....my .22 rimmys are lot easier for me to shoot accurately....
I like old .22 rimmys like over 50 years old....used to collect old .22 target rifles.....got some good one got rid of some good ones....
The Truth for me is this,they are different....I am into pellet guns now,they are great fun and most are very accurate and to get them to shoot accurately and consistent can be a challenge....and when you do it is more about what and how you did it!
One can become more of One when one learns and Trains his pellet gun to obey ....That is the aspect of pellet guns that creates more of a challenge for Me....to train myself and my gun to obey....Truth is it is easier for me to shoot pellets guns in my backyard,something I can not do with my .22 rimes......oh yea both are great FUN..
I like old .22 rimmys like over 50 years old....used to collect old .22 target rifles.....got some good one got rid of some good ones....
The Truth for me is this,they are different....I am into pellet guns now,they are great fun and most are very accurate and to get them to shoot accurately and consistent can be a challenge....and when you do it is more about what and how you did it!
One can become more of One when one learns and Trains his pellet gun to obey ....That is the aspect of pellet guns that creates more of a challenge for Me....to train myself and my gun to obey....Truth is it is easier for me to shoot pellets guns in my backyard,something I can not do with my .22 rimes......oh yea both are great FUN..
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Similar here. I never had a collection of them but I've had .22 rimfires since the 60's, many of which were made earlier. I shoot my air guns because I can do so locally with ease and they are just fun. I could still shoot rimfires at my home now (still do for the occasional predator) but growth means it would be intrusive to some although not illegal in our unicorporated area. If I knew that I needed to deal with small game beyond 50 yards or so with any regularity I would pick up one of the rimfires. But the air guns in larger calibers might be all some can (or need) to use.
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If I have time at the range for my PCP/LR shoot I may go out to 100 yards...I have shot at 105 hunting once but I used my Marauder .25 cal. Much will depend on range schedule/activities even during the week now with the pandemic. The RSO's are volunteers and there are 6 ranges so depends on the mix of shooters.(pistol. shotgun, rifle)
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Interesting chart. I have an air rifle that shot an 8 shot group indoors at 51 yards of .375"
850 HPA .177 cal 10.3 gr jsb. I used it in FT and air gun BR matches.
The one in the middle.
850 HPA .177 cal 10.3 gr jsb. I used it in FT and air gun BR matches.
The one in the middle.
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My BSA Lonestar .25 cal shoots 3/8" 5-shot groups at 50 yards with JSB 25.4 grain Exact King pellets.
My CZ 452 .22LR shoots 1" 5-shot groups at 100 yards with CCI Velocitors.
This is in Montana at around 3500 feet elevation with a bit of wind blowing. No such thing as a wind free day around here, so do not know what the "still air" accuracy is. I try to keep the wind at my back or in my face, but it usually changes direction constantly when the wind is light and variable.
Anyway, those are "real world" results in the field, and not at an indoor range.
My CZ 452 .22LR shoots 1" 5-shot groups at 100 yards with CCI Velocitors.
This is in Montana at around 3500 feet elevation with a bit of wind blowing. No such thing as a wind free day around here, so do not know what the "still air" accuracy is. I try to keep the wind at my back or in my face, but it usually changes direction constantly when the wind is light and variable.
Anyway, those are "real world" results in the field, and not at an indoor range.
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My thought-wind ("no such thing as a wind free day around here") will make a noticeable difference from 50 to 100 yards. Why not shoot some 50 yard groups with the CZ (or 100 with the BSA) and get a direct comparison. Also, Velocitors aren't considered top of the heap for rimfire accuracy. Not attacking your info, just noting it isn't the most strenuous comparison.
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Groups are not particularly meaningful unless you are shooting for group size.
Score shooting tells the tale.
If you have two guns that group equally, but one is 4x more wind resistant...it’s not going to be much of a challenge between the two on anything but a dead calm day if the shooters have equal ability.
Mike
Score shooting tells the tale.
If you have two guns that group equally, but one is 4x more wind resistant...it’s not going to be much of a challenge between the two on anything but a dead calm day if the shooters have equal ability.
Mike
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I agree, but the shooter mentioned could compare the two dramatically different types at the same time under the same conditions at the same distance. Seems that would be more informative than one at 50 yards and one at 100 yards.
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I own quite a few match grade 22lr rifles including a custom AR platform I've reached to 600yds with consistently. At 50yds, the comparison is fair without a doubt. And even at 100yds the edge can and does favor the pcp. BC and grain weight isn't a deal breaker to accuracy at those distances. I'm a long time powder shooter, and shoot every day. Until recently, there wasn't anything else. Now I'm really leaning more and more to air. I think it's a matter of time before we see pcp guns reaching the insane distances achieved by powder. Slugs are the future, and I think once they are 40grains they will have the ability to really show what they can do. The BC isn't there yet on what is available. And air hasn't gotten the to the point of supporting those 40gr chunks with any shot count yet, yet.
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There are 40 grain and heavier 22 slug guns already...but the top air rifles won’t compete with the top rimfire guns at this time.
Air is never going to compete with powder at the real long ranges....unless someone figures out how to lower the mass of it by a few hundred times....and be able to store a few hundred times more on board.
Mike
Air is never going to compete with powder at the real long ranges....unless someone figures out how to lower the mass of it by a few hundred times....and be able to store a few hundred times more on board.
Mike
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EXODUS-
"And even at 100yds the edge can and does favor the pcp."
"The BC isn't there yet on what is available. And air hasn't gotten the to the point of supporting those 40gr chunks with any shot count yet, yet."
Seems like a direct contradiction to me. At this point. I will always reach for a rimfire over an air gun as range exceeds 50 yards. Could PCP's eventually close the overall performance gap? Possibly, but they aren't there yet.
"And even at 100yds the edge can and does favor the pcp."
"The BC isn't there yet on what is available. And air hasn't gotten the to the point of supporting those 40gr chunks with any shot count yet, yet."
Seems like a direct contradiction to me. At this point. I will always reach for a rimfire over an air gun as range exceeds 50 yards. Could PCP's eventually close the overall performance gap? Possibly, but they aren't there yet.
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No contradiction there. 100 yds is not a reach for a 22lr. One of my ELR guns I never shoot under 200 with unless I'm testing reloads. I guess I should interate that I'm a steel hunter. My quarry is steel or paper very much most of the time. If I'm taking game, I would concede to powder before air. But I've made allot of shots taking starlings from 90 to 120 with a pcp with little problems. I doubt I'd go further,,, yet. With powder, I'll go to 200 because I'm confident with 3 of my guns in making precision shots on the right day. Allot more time and the right gun, I might do the same with air. Speaking on the level of just accuracy, I can see a Pcp competing with powder out too 100yds. And I know for a fact that at 50yds a pcp will stay with and very possibly beat half my match powder guns in my stable.
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And I forgot to add. When I said the BC isn't there yet. I was more meaning, the BC isn't there yet when talking about shooting moderate to extreme ranges. BC at 100 yds isn't enough difference between slugs and bullets to affect accuracy by in large. After that 100yds, now BC is going to play a larger part, especially on the slug because of its lower speed and lighter weight. I hope I clarified.
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I absolutely agree. But I think it's possible. A decade ago we weren't shooting guns with a fill capacity of 4000psi. Especially in entry level guns. And when you start looking at other gases, I think the door is starting to creep open. But you are right, packaging is the key. If we can figure out how to get 4000psi in a 9mm cartridge, we have won the day. Lmao
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I think I know what you meant about indoors/and real world.....I was only stating no wind condition for the 850.(8 shots)....btw, the indoors was actually a 3 foot diameter steel pipe buried in the ground next to my friends garage (51 yards long) for testing airgun accuracy (baseline no wind.)
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