Rimfire vs PCP

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PCP gunners have a lot more ways to achieve accuracy than rimfire shooters do. At least, more things they can do themselves, as opposed to having a match smith do it. And the power impulse is relatively fixed, whereas we can adapt our rifles to the ammo. Once the shot leaves the muzzle, I think the average rimfire has an edge ballistically, but we have more ways to make it leave the muzzle right.



Crazyhorse, nice shooting with a rack M14.
 
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Pellet selection is critical...I shoot mainly JSB's.... my Disco .22 JSB 14.3 gr, but all my other rifles Avenger, Dominator HPA .22 ; AR6 DUK .22 like JSB 15.9 gr...I may try some JSB 18.1 gr in the Avenger.

The rifle that shoots the tightest groups though is my 850 Air Magnum HPA ;177 shooting JSB 10.3 gr at 960 FPS. 8 shoot groups at 50 yards 375".

Thanks Khornet...the only edge I had is they gave us Lake City match ammo for our M 14 Rack guns...On the rifle team I got a M1 Garand Match rifle with 1/2 minute clicks on the sight....
 
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Ok guys...5 shot groups it is...and my CZ 452 is an Ultra Lux. As far as ammo I stocked up prior to Obama getting in...I have approaching 9-10,000 rounds of LR 36 and 40 gr.

We can't use it hunting anymore (California) and that green stuff is inaccurate and they have boosted velocities to try and help it. Really sucks. I found out the other day I can't purchase PB ammo unless I have a recent fire arm purchase.

The Rifles.:

IMG_0599.1613003933.JPG






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Wait till the same is happening for airguns
 
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There's a whole chapter in my new book, titled Rimfire Versus Air Pistol Accuracy (all at 50 yards). The air pistols won.

AAP new cover small.1613008833.jpg
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Ron,

Congrats on another airgun book written! 👍🏼👍🏼

How cool is that?! Cool guns, cool shooting scores, and then on top of that, airgun books. 😊👍🏼



Matthias



PS: You have a link where to buy it, please?
 
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A lot of people are critical of the rimfire due to ammunition issues. And indeed, that is, and always has been the huge challenge with precision rimfire accuracy. You can spend $3K on an excellent rifle, but lousy ammo will spray groups like a shotgun pattern. But I think to answer the question honestly, one has to assume a lot of diligence in selecting true precision ammunition, suited to the specific rifle. That done, I've never seen an air rifle that could match the rimfire performance at 50 yards or more. We can all show pictures of outstanding groups, usually the exception. But in terms of sustained, consistent performance, I am personally convinced the rimfire is superior, but only if you have the time, interest, and money to find the right ammo, and that can be a huge frustration. Over 20 years ago, when BR-50 was popular, this is exactly what drove many shooters to the air rifle platform, they decided the frustration of rimfire ammunition just wasn't worth it. 
 
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I put my CZ 452 Ultra Lux up against my .25 700mm Slug A Impact several times. And both shot near 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards more often than not. But for my CZ to shoot those groups I had to use match ammo at $.20 a round. The NSA slugs for the Impact are only $.06 so it's easy to see why I shoot my airguns more.
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Great summary of the comparison. It would be great if anyone could provide the comparison with a .30 airgun, as the .30 is the go to caliber for bench rest competitions.
 
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elh, my Impact has equaled at 70 yd the best group I've gotten from my Model 52 at 50. Now, there is surely some apple/orange here, as it's a 1948 Model 52 stocked and bedded by an amateur (me) with a lesser scope using Winchester Power Point hunting ammo, but shooting with eyes 17 years younger. The Impact, though, is tuned and fired by an amateur at greater distance with much older eyes.

Now, if there were a practical way to custom handload precision rimfire ammo for your specific rifle, yes, I think rimfire would win.

52B.1613052980.jpg

 
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I put my CZ 452 Ultra Lux up against my .25 700mm Slug A Impact several times. And both shot near 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards more often than not. But for my CZ to shoot those groups I had to use match ammo at $.20 a round. The NSA slugs for the Impact are only $.06 so it's easy to see why I shoot my airguns more.
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Great summary of the comparison. It would be great if anyone could provide the comparison with a .30 airgun, as the .30 is the go to caliber for bench rest competitions.
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The market is driving things that way. Up until 6 years ago I shot in airgun benchrest matches and we used .177 for 25 meters and .22 for 50 meters. Personally I see the .177 as the airguns most under rated pellet. Below is a can I set out at 84 yards full of water. I called the shots to my shooting friends : one to hit the circle and the 2nd to empty the can.

10.3 gr JSB

Fun shoot Pine Valley 005.1613053193.JPG

 
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Last night I read a bunch about rimfire benchrest. The state of the art seems to be: heavy precision rests, stocks well bedded and weighted in specific places to match barrel harmonics, indexed barrels, cone breech (making indexing practical, and reducing the effect of buildup of bullet lube and powder fouling at the breech face) two-groove CHOKED barrels, and controlling barrel harmonics by some sort of device hung on the barrel. All of that is necessary to make the very best rimfire match ammo perform, and if ammo lot changes, everything else does. So they are basically BUILDING the gun to match the ammo, while PCP gunners can ADJUST the gun to make the ammo perform.
 
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I put my CZ 452 Ultra Lux up against my .25 700mm Slug A Impact several times. And both shot near 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards more often than not. But for my CZ to shoot those groups I had to use match ammo at $.20 a round. The NSA slugs for the Impact are only $.06 so it's easy to see why I shoot my airguns more.
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Great summary of the comparison. It would be great if anyone could provide the comparison with a .30 airgun, as the .30 is the go to caliber for bench rest competitions.
Click to expand...

The market is driving things that way. Up until 6 years ago I shot in airgun benchrest matches and we used .177 for 25 meters and .22 for 50 meters. Personally I see the .177 as the airguns most under rated pellet. Below is a can I set out at 84 yards full of water. I called the shots to my shooting friends : one to hit the circle and the 2nd to empty the can.

10.3 gr JSB

Fun shoot Pine Valley 005.1613053193.JPG
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Nice shooting at 84yards. I agree 177 is under rated. The JSB 13 and 16gr pellet may change that. Better pellets have improved airgun performance in all calibers over the years. Before JSB produced 25cal pellets airguns in 25cal weren't as popular.

I recently updated my Crown to .177 and thing it will be a great option for shooting 50yard at the range. I haven't finished the power tune, but, the last shot string with JSB 13.43gr averaged 862pfs ES 51 fps STD 7.7 fps with 180 shots on a 220bar fill (500cc bottle). The first 10 shots had lower velocities, so i need to increase the HS a small amount. I just installed a 580cc CF bottle from Talon Tunes. I should be able to shot for a couple hours at the range without a refill! The 0.177 JSB ammo is inexpensive and high quality. I am waiting for the weather to warm up before i try the range - no much fun shooting outside in sub-20deg F temps.

I only suggested the 30 cal because many of the comparisons between 22LR and airguns are done at 100yards. When there is prize money on the line most EBR (airgun) shooters choose 30 cal over all other calibers including .357


 
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All of the comparisons so far talk about groups. Groups are not really indicative of the ability to hit something. I have a 12fpe air rifle that will shoot great groups even out to 100y if the wind is cooperative....but would never be a sensible choice if I had something else that could handle the wind, since most times the wind will be present.

If a person shoots for score on a BR card...it’s a whole different game. An accurate Rimfire with the right ammo will destroy 99.9% of air rifles at 50y....and still beat the other .1%...it just won’t be completely embarrassing.

The 50y ARA unlimited Rimfire target is a 1/2” circle. Put your bullet inside the circle without breaking it and you get 100pts. Do that 25 times on a card and you get a 2500. It happens quite a bit with the top Rimfire guns. Winning club scores are probably in the 2300 range for 4 card average. Try that out with an air rifle and see how it goes. You have to average about .270” 25 shot groups AND put it where it’s supposed to go in the wind.

Believe me....I’m all for air rifles. I build competition air rifles for a living. It’s important to really grasp where you stand, though.

Mike 
 
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elh, my Impact has equaled at 70 yd the best group I've gotten from my Model 52 at 50. Now, there is surely some apple/orange here, as it's a 1948 Model 52 stocked and bedded by an amateur (me) with a lesser scope using Winchester Power Point hunting ammo, but shooting with eyes 17 years younger. The Impact, though, is tuned and fired by an amateur at greater distance with much older eyes.

Now, if there were a practical way to custom handload precision rimfire ammo for your specific rifle, yes, I think rimfire would win.

52B.1613052980.jpg
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Mike, that's a fine old Model 52, and I would be proud to own it. But, with all respect, it is not competitive with a top shelf custom BR rimfire. You hit the nail on the head regarding customizing the ammo to the rifle. That's why precision accuracy with a rimfire involves never-ending testing of ammo, since we can't handload it. It's why I quit rimfire BR. I would end up with a room full of expensive ammo that wouldn't shoot competitively, although it shot very well. PCP rifles have their maintenance issues, but pellet selection is generally much easier than rimfire ammo selection. The brass, powder, primer combine to yield a plethora of variables, all beyond the shooter's control.
 
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