Rimfire or PCP

[mike_k10]

I am not sure a blanket PCP Vs Rimfire rifle comparison is possible. On what basis are we making this comparison? Price of the air rifle Vs the rimfire? Price of the ammunition used? I'd say that even a comparison between a Vudoo and a high priced competition air rifle from the premium maker of choice would not make sense beyond the single event when the faceoff takes place. Both have a place in the gunsafe. And both have their specific uses. At longer ranges and in windy conditions the rimfire will have an edge - it is simple physics after all. At closer ranges and in still conditions, the air rifle could be as - or more accurate - on paper at shorter ranges. Once again, both have their uses. At a much older age, I have come into airgunning and I am enjoying it immensely. Previously, I was an international UIT shooter in the then English Match, and have also been a "powder burning" hunter for more than forty years.

Now, let's make this even more complicated by talking about what makes hunting small game (squirrels, rabbits and so on) easier - airguns, rimfires, or shotguns. Peace and God Bless everyone!

 

[steve123]

Yes, agree. I think the high end rimfires (not the Base Class) like Vudoo or Anschutz with top quality ammo still outperform the best of slug shooting air rifles. If you compare the slug airguns like the Panthera to the Base Class rimfires I think the airguns are actually as good as or better. We shot an NRL-22 match Sundy AM at Rio Salado, and out of our group there were four airguns and three Base Class rimfires. All but one of us had higher scores than all three of the three rimfire shooters. We had two .22 Panthera 700mm, one .25 Panthera 600mm and one .22 Impact.

Yep it was likely the better shooters being the deciding factor during that occasion but I agree with you especially after seeing how well those Panthera's did at the Long Range match at PR&GC on Saturday.

Was the Rio match out to 100Y, or farther?

 

[Centercut]

Yep it was likely the better shooters being the deciding factor during that occasion but I agree with you especially after seeing how well those Panthera's did at the Long Range match at PR&GC on Saturday.

Was the Rio match out to 100Y, or farther?

The NRL-22 Monthly stages were out to 100 yards. Then the local club added additional stages that went out to over 200 yards... One was 270 yards if I remember correctly. For most of us, the targets out over 100 yards were kinda pointless. Not sure why they add those long stages, it'd be like showing up to a 100Y BR match and being told we needed to shoot a couple of the bulls at 150.

 

[Geezerhood]

Yes, agree. I think the high end rimfires (not the Base Class) like Vudoo or Anschutz with top quality ammo still outperform the best of slug shooting air rifles. If you compare the slug airguns like the Panthera to the Base Class rimfires I think the airguns are actually as good as or better. We shot an NRL-22 match Sundy AM at Rio Salado, and out of our group there were four airguns and three Base Class rimfires. All but one of us had higher scores than all three of the three rimfire shooters. We had two .22 Panthera 700mm, one .25 Panthera 600mm and one .22 Impact.

From my experience, you don't necessarily need a high end 22 rimfire gun to outshoot some fairly nice PCP guns - just a good shooting barrel, good trigger and good scope.

I have an FX M3, STI Prophet 2 and an Uragan 2. They all shoot very well but my $300 aftermarket barrel on a Ruger 10-22 that has a great trigger and a Sightron 10-50x (same scope as used on the 3 PCP guns) scope on it, outshoots ALL of them with good ammo and I never get unexplained fliers or random changes to the zero from one day to the next, like I do with all three of the PCP guns.

 

[rcs9250]

I have a Tikka T1x RF and on my KYL target I can hit the quarter inch wide spinner 2 out of 3 shots pretty consistently at 50 yards. My Crown .22 and Wildcat Sniper .22 are pretty competitive with that.
The Tikka is using Lapua Midas + at $20 for 50 rounds. For $20 I can shoot a decent quality tin of 500 pellets.
Kind of a no brainer what to shoot. But I have to forget about that $3,700 Alkin that feeds it.

 

[tommyb]

Yes, agree. I think the high end rimfires (not the Base Class) like Vudoo or Anschutz with top quality ammo still outperform the best of slug shooting air rifles. If you compare the slug airguns like the Panthera to the Base Class rimfires I think the airguns are actually as good as or better. We shot an NRL-22 match Sundy AM at Rio Salado, and out of our group there were four airguns and three Base Class rimfires. All but one of us had higher scores than all three of the three rimfire shooters. We had two .22 Panthera 700mm, one .25 Panthera 600mm and one .22 Impact.

This is one of my favorite topics; rimfire vs. PCP.

Also, in watching the 2022 N50 monthly match results, I would agree that the high end airguns "hold their own" against many of the rim fires for N50 50-yard matches in the Sportsman's Class mostly. It looks like the air guns did pretty well at your NRL-22 100 yard match also.

I have two Anschutz .22 LRs; one is what I might consider to be a bit higher than "base class" in the 64 MPR. The other is a 1907 single load match grade bench rest rifle ( Pro Class).

Mike N. had a 100 yard " in the rings slug challenge" he posted about a year or 18 months ago. I think a good "use case" for the Panthera would be to try it out using this challenge ( or something very similar at 100 yards ) to see how it does. I see Rusbear's latest 100 yard groups outside in tough conditions, and I am very curious to see how the Panthera will do this year at RMAC and EBR. Those 25 shot groups are outstanding.

Here is my best "slugs in the rings" card with my Annie 1907. My one and only '2500' - top row. Mike N also posted a 2500 with his Thomas.
As a matter of curiosity, I wanted to calculate my average CTC for my three scoring challenges. I had a total of 75 shots, or the equivalent of 15 5-shots per bull scoring for an average .886" CTC sub MOA for 100 yards. I used the best RWS 50 40G ammo, which is perfect for this gun, so is the RWS 100.

The best I could ever do with the RAW, Safari, FX Boss was about an '1850' for the 'slugs in the rings' 100 yard AGN challenge. I am certain that the Panthera can do much better shooting 40g slugs.

But, let's see!!

 

[Centercut]

This is one of my favorite topics; rimfire vs. PCP.

Also, in watching the 2022 N50 monthly match results, I would agree that the high end airguns "hold their own" against many of the rim fires for N50 50-yard matches in the Sportsman's Class mostly. It looks like the air guns did pretty well at your NRL-22 100 yard match also.

I have two Anschutz .22 LRs; one is what I might consider to be a bit higher than "base class" in the 64 MPR. The other is a 1907 single load match grade bench rest rifle ( Pro Class).

Mike N. had a 100 yard " in the rings slug challenge" he posted about a year or 18 months ago. I think a good "use case" for the Panthera would be to try it out using this challenge ( or something very similar at 100 yards ) to see how it does. I see Rusbear's latest 100 yard groups outside in tough conditions, and I am very curious to see how the Panthera will do this year at RMAC and EBR. Those 25 shot groups are outstanding.

Here is my best "slugs in the rings" card with my Annie 1907. My one and only '2500' - top row. Mike N also posted a 2500 with his Thomas.
As a matter of curiosity, I wanted to calculate my average CTC for my three scoring challenges. I had a total of 75 shots, or the equivalent of 15 5-shots per bull scoring for an average .886" CTC sub MOA for 100 yards. I used the best RWS 50 40G ammo, which is perfect for this gun, so is the RWS 100.

The best I could ever do with the RAW, Safari, FX Boss was about an '1850' for the 'slugs in the rings' 100 yard AGN challenge. I am certain that the Panthera can do much better shooting 40g slugs.

But, let's see!!

I remember that Tommy... And yes, those @RusBear slug groups at 100Y are every bit as good as anything I've seen from the Thomas rail type guns - plus he's shooting in an open snow-covered field in windy conditions. He's worked hard to get his Panthera shooting as well as it does, it certainly didn't come that way. And his .22 FX Crown pellet rifle results are also comparable. Nicolay and Hein Fromman both have gotten results as good as any gun on the market from their FX airguns.
I was a bit surprised when I read on another post that it was possible to buy good scores, and the shooter was only a minor player in the results. While that might be true indoors or in no wind or consistent calm breezes, I don't think outdoors in windy conditions that is true, especially at 100 yards...
I think we'll see some Panthera's at RMAC and EBR, mostly in the PRS event, and a few in the 100Y BR event.

 

[Seeker]

PCP with a rimfire barrel.

 

[tommyb]

I remember that Tommy... And yes, those @RusBear slug groups at 100Y are every bit as good as anything I've seen from the Thomas rail type guns - plus he's shooting in an open snow-covered field in windy conditions. He's worked hard to get his Panthera shooting as well as it does, it certainly didn't come that way. And his .22 FX Crown pellet rifle results are also comparable. Nicolay and Hein Fromman both have gotten results as good as any gun on the market from their FX airguns.
I was a bit surprised when I read on another post that it was possible to buy good scores, and the shooter was only a minor player in the results. While that might be true indoors or in no wind or consistent calm breezes, I don't think outdoors in windy conditions that is true, especially at 100 yards...
I think we'll see some Panthera's at RMAC and EBR, mostly in the PRS event, and a few in the 100Y BR event.

When I watched his video, it was obvious that Nicolay likes to experiment. He did work hard on his Panthera, trying to optimize the maximum performance and it shows. The testing he did with the various slug sizing was insightful, especially in those outdoor conditions.

I realize the gun and equipment ( I.e., the arrow ) have to be in top form, but it’s the shooter ( I.e., Indian ) and his/her overall skill that win those outdoor 100 yard BR competition events.

Those .177 and .22 Crowns are also impressive in the N50 match results too. They also do well in the 30 yard challenge as well with multiple 200 perfect scores.

 

[Miami Airgunner]

You can run a PCP compressor off a cheap solar panel/battery. Ebay hand pumps are cheap enough you can have a couple backups. The only limitations are your preparedness, redundancies, knowledge/repair skills for your gear, and supply of ammunition. I would think silence would be an even *greater* priority during a situation without rule of law. Nice to grab a squirrel for dinner (or bigger game) without alerting everyone within a couple mile radius, don't you think?

Well, to be fair, I own tax-stamped NFA items, so... It's pretty shooshy no matter PB or PCP..

 

[jmohme]

Other than my EDC handgun, I don't think I have touched any of my powder burners in over a year.
I shoot my PCPs every day when I am home.

I can shoot up to 85 yards quietly at home, or loudly at the range.

 

[Mr303]

From my experience, you don't necessarily need a high end 22 rimfire gun to outshoot some fairly nice PCP guns - just a good shooting barrel, good trigger and good scope.

I have an FX M3, STI Prophet 2 and an Uragan 2. They all shoot very well but my $300 aftermarket barrel on a Ruger 10-22 that has a great trigger and a Sightron 10-50x (same scope as used on the 3 PCP guns) scope on it, outshoots ALL of them with good ammo and I never get unexplained fliers or random changes to the zero from one day to the next, like I do with all three of the PCP guns.

I have a 10/22 with a cheapo Bushnell scope, Boyds thumbhole stock, Timney trigger, and a "Bo" Clerke 18" SS bull barrel I put together because a friend said 22lr's "weren't accurate". (The barrel is what makes this gun really accurate.)
Mine will drive tacks at 100yds with any ammo.
My biggest concern with air rifles is power drop-off at distance.
In my experience the 22LR does more damage and has better ballistics on game beyond 100yds than air does.

 

[Nordic Norm]

I Divested of the smoke poles entirely and have amassed an airgun collection starting from zero beginning around the 1st of this year. There have been many sales, refurbished guns, and other great deals in the last 3 months. Looking at prices from over several years, the deals have been excellent lately. I've bought over 2 dozen airguns in the last 3 months from whoever had the best price. No real problems with a single one. Putting a collection together from scratch in a few months has been wicked fun. I love the mechanical/engineering complexity of air. My final order is for a refurbished Seneca Eagle Claw in 25 cal. (For now that is).
The best hobbies are a never ending black hole of gadgets.

 

[Cody01]

I've been shooting powder burners profeasionally and recreationally for 35 years. In all honesty a quality .22 rimfire with match grade ammo has outshot all of my airguns consistantly. The airguns seem to vary a little for some reason. That being said I do really enjoy the airguns because of the ability to shoot whereever I want undetected.

 

[bckyrdsnpr52]

I never thought I'd see the day that pellets can cost as much or more than 22lr. Ammo

 

[Nordic Norm]

I've been shooting powder burners profeasionally and recreationally for 35 years. In all honesty a quality .22 rimfire with match grade ammo has outshot all of my airguns consistantly. The airguns seem to vary a little for some reason. That being said I do really enjoy the airguns because of the ability to shoot whereever I want undetected.

It's a result of the pressure/power ratio. 22 match ammo generates upwards of 15,000psi for energy of over 70ftlbs. That's alot of headroom. The air gun maximum operating pressure is below 4500psi. for <30fpe (22). Much more fussy with this little pressure headroom. The engineering and build is more complex and critical as a result.

 

[Blankshot17]

Just contrasting in thought, how many powder burners in other forums are actually comparing "air rifles to their rimfires". I always like surprising my friends and family 'especially relatives' that just think as my stuff as "BB guns" . I have altered the thought of my brother-in-law, he is amazed and convinced, he is pretty smart and also worldly. I have a "cousin" that likes to ridicule me though, but he won't do a "friendly" plinking contest within 100 yards. Go figure?

 

[Rawroots]

You can run a PCP compressor off a cheap solar panel/battery. Ebay hand pumps are cheap enough you can have a couple backups. The only limitations are your preparedness, redundancies, knowledge/repair skills for your gear, and supply of ammunition. I would think silence would be an even *greater* priority during a situation without rule of law. Nice to grab a squirrel for dinner (or bigger game) without alerting everyone within a couple mile radius, don't you think?

Agree 100% , have you shot suppressed 22 loads? Amazingly quiet.

 

[HogKiller]

Last Saturday I zeroed out my semi-auto 22WMR at 125 yards and it will shoot less than 1/2 inch groups.
With Hornady v max 30gr it’s a prairie dog slaying machine.

I prefer my A17, things a friggin' laser, have my Mavericks for practice and because of a dog on the property doesn't like loud noises.

 

[EliteAirCustoms]

Agreed, I sold all my rimfires. Why bother in my opinion. My 3 FX rifles will all outshoot most rimifle rifles off the shelf. I'm not comparing them to VooDoo or anything crazy just regular rimfire rifles Ruger 10/22 class and under. My FX guns win everytime, cheaper ammo, and super stealthy hunters. No question...PCP all the way