Reticle relationship to top turret question

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Hummer57

Hummer57

Member
Aug 12, 2020
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Idaho, United States
I have a aim sport alpha 6 4.5x27x50 that I am mounting on my rifle. I’ve always used the top turret as the starting point to level the scope. I put a bubble level on the receiver and one on the turret. This usually gets me very close to true vertical. Then I use a plumb bob to verify. The top turret is not in line with the reticle when the gun and turret are level. When I plumb bob the reticle the turret is slightly off level. Should I be concerned about this? I have not finished mounting and have not shot groups to see if the scope tracks correctly. Should I proceed and if the scope tracks perfectly not worry? 
 
I think the impact of hold cant in particular is underestimated by many.

You kinda know after some shooting whether your scope is out of line with the bore, and will tend to reposition it to eliminate scope cant. Conversely, hold cant is the hidden long-range accuracy killer -- especially in unlevel topography lacking a visual reference level. Bullpups are especially affected by hold cant because the scope tends to be mounted higher than on full-length guns.

I now systematically place a bubble level on my guns. They only cost a few bucks on aliexpress. Putting them on is easy as well -- simply align the vertical crosshair of the reticle on a window frame or edge of a building, and level the bubble.

🐦
 
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I have a aim sport alpha 6 4.5x27x50 that I am mounting on my rifle. I’ve always used the top turret as the starting point to level the scope. I put a bubble level on the receiver and one on the turret. This usually gets me very close to true vertical. Then I use a plumb bob to verify. The top turret is not in line with the reticle when the gun and turret are level. When I plumb bob the reticle the turret is slightly off level. Should I be concerned about this? I have not finished mounting and have not shot groups to see if the scope tracks correctly. Should I proceed and if the scope tracks perfectly not worry?
Click to expand...

That is the main question, will the scope track "accurately". If the turret is not aligned with the reticle then is the reticle also not aligned with the inner tube mechanism? That is why I don't routinely use the mirror method. It should work fine if all is aligned but if not, then what? I prefer to check alignment by tracking the scope up and down using a plumb bobbed level vertical line. If you click to shoot and the tracking doesn't follow the turret then having the reticle center "directly over the bore" visually through the mirror method will not guarantee accuracy once you click off of initial zero. This is probably not an extremely common issue but using the tracking method would always overcome it whereas the mirror method might not.
 
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I have a aim sport alpha 6 4.5x27x50 that I am mounting on my rifle. I’ve always used the top turret as the starting point to level the scope. I put a bubble level on the receiver and one on the turret. This usually gets me very close to true vertical. Then I use a plumb bob to verify. The top turret is not in line with the reticle when the gun and turret are level. When I plumb bob the reticle the turret is slightly off level. Should I be concerned about this? I have not finished mounting and have not shot groups to see if the scope tracks correctly. Should I proceed and if the scope tracks perfectly not worry?
Click to expand...

That is the main question, will the scope track "accurately". If the turret is not aligned with the reticle then is the reticle also not aligned with the inner tube mechanism? That is why I don't routinely use the mirror method. It should work fine if all is aligned but if not, then what? I prefer to check alignment by tracking the scope up and down using a plumb bobbed level vertical line. If you click to shoot and the tracking doesn't follow the turret then having the reticle center "directly over the bore" visually through the mirror method will not guarantee accuracy once you click off of initial zero. This is probably not an extremely common issue but using the tracking method would always overcome it whereas the mirror method might not.
Click to expand...

Point taken. If the adjustment block with the turrets is slightly twisted in relation to the reticle, the internal adjustment mechanism may also be "crooked". I have a few scopes like that. They track well. Still, the tracking may become less accurate in settings where the reticle zero is far off center. Especially in 1inch tube scopes. 🐦
 
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I use a self-leveling laser level to align my scopes to the rifle barrel. First, get your rifle level, in a stand or rest of some sort, with a couple of small bubble levels. Such as these:

https://www.amazon.com/Hanging-10x10x29mm-Picture-Measuring-Instruments/dp/B07VTQG17V/ref=pd_all_pref_n_3/139-9401747-1863003?

Then with your laser level pointed at a wall, mount your scope and align your crosshairs to the laser + projected on the wall. Dead level every time. The laser level is very handy around the house for aligning picture frames, bookshelves or what have you, so the wife will like your purchase 😃.

You can use a laser level such as this - not very expensive at all for its multiple uses:

https://www.amazon.com/Tacklife-SC-L01-50-Self-Leveling-Horizontal-Cross-Line/dp/B01N33JJ3R/ref=pd_lpo_469_img_2/139-9401747-1863003?

If you have a bore sighter you can also use that to center the barrel in the middle of the laser projected "crosshairs". You'll be on paper right away and can zero from there.
 
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What model Athlon exactly?

Can you actually see the reticle canted in relation to both of the scope turrets and side focus wheel 9 o clock 12 o clock and 3 o clock? Keep your head back and pay attention max out the magnification if you must to see the reticle looking far back as possible.

I would also try to use a different brand scope as a second opinion to see if your scope rail isn't canted.
 
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“Is there a better way to level the reticle instead of the scope?”

It’s a great question, but the first thing to understand is that when you are installing a scope, you don’t need to level either one of them to the force of gravity. The thing that matters is that the reticle is oriented correctly to the bore. It’s only *after* you have the scope mounted that a level need come into play.

I know that runs counter to numerous tutorials and videos on mounting a scope but these methods are all subject to numerous sources of error. Among them:

1. Scope not perfectly centered over the rail (especially common with 11mm and 3/8” tipoff rings)
2. Receiver mortise not perfectly aligned to the rail
3. Barrel tenon not perfectly aligned to the bore
4. Barrel not perfectly straight
5. Scope reticle not perfectly clocked inside the scope body

That’s not even a complete list, and there’s still more opportunity for error in whatever surfaces of the gun and scope the levels are placed on to help “level” them to each other.

A jig like the Arisaka is subject to all the same sources of error. Granted, in many cases these errors are small enough to not present a problem. But sometimes they do...and it’s hard to diagnose why it happens if we are supremely confident in a technique that has these inherent shortcomings. 

All these sources of error melt away when you orient the scope to the bore using a mirror as described in the previous thread I linked above.

Lastly, I should point out the tracking question asked in the original post is a distinctly separate issue. I may have misinterpreted it in my initial reply. However it was also clear to me that he was in the process of mounting a scope and was troubled by the fact things weren’t lining up as expected so the advice was relevant, but there might remain a tracking issue if the turrets are pushing around a reticle (erector tube) that is rotated relative to them.
 
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Your gun's scope rail must somehow be canted.

I would remove the scope and run a bubble level under the trigger guard and another on the top scope pic rail. A balancing act but that's the only way to tell for sure.

Another test would be to turn both scope rings 180 degrees and mount the scope with the Arisaka and see if it's still canted.
 
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