I have a question for you guys. Do you leave the bottles on your rifles fully pressurized all the time? I've heard it's good to leave pressure behind the seals and O-rings because they form to fit, and by constantly pressurizing and depressurizing the seals, it actually shortens their life. What do you guys think about this? What do you personally do? My reg is set at 200 BAR (AF Condor w/PCP Tunes V3 reg) and I typically store my rifle with 205-210 BAR in the bottle. That way I don't have to let the reg settle back in like you do if you drain the tank. But I've heard this is what you should do. When I hunt or target shoot, I typically fill the rifle tank to 260 or 270 BAR. The reg can handle 300 BAR from the bottle, but I don't typically fill that high. But storing the rifle, I keep the bottle pressure just high enough to give me about 2 regulated shots (in case I need to "pest control"). But I was curious about what you guys do with your rifles, and why you do it the way you do?
Regulators and leaving pressure in the bottle
- Thread starter TrinityMaker
- Start date
I don't make it a point to do anything to the bottle of my FX Royale 400, except fill it when needed. I keep the gun in my laundry room so I can shoot those pesky tree rats who destroy my bird feeders. I've had the Royal since Feb of 2017.
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I store mine at the max the gun manufacturer recommends to be filled. When everything is sealed properly it holds and keeps the seals where they should be.
It's a good test to see the condition of your seals if they are leaking or if the regulator is creeping.
It's a good test to see the condition of your seals if they are leaking or if the regulator is creeping.
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Regulated guns stored right at the reg set point and unregulated guns whatever pressures left don't matter to me no sense filling to store just added stress to seals just fill when you ready to go shoot again IMHO.
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Right before I had to disassemble my Air Arms S410ERB (yes, the old FAC version), none of the O-rings needed to be replaced due to a leak since purchasing it new. How long since day one had it been when the leak occurred? Eight years! Had I not degassed and disassembled the air tube, I believe it would not need any O-ring replacement to this day, which would now be 13 years of leak-free ownership.
Keeping the air tube/bottle pressurized when in storage puts load on the O-rings and keeps them "form fitted." I think when you depressurize the air tube/bottle, the O-rings lose their original fit so that when you pressurize the air tube/bottle again, there would now be tiny openings between the contact areas from which air escapes. It's kind of like an automobile engine gasket--when the engine cover is opened up, typically, a new gasket needs to be installed since the previous one's custom-fitted form by the internal pressures it had endured from the engine's load through operation has been lost.
Keeping the air tube/bottle pressurized when in storage puts load on the O-rings and keeps them "form fitted." I think when you depressurize the air tube/bottle, the O-rings lose their original fit so that when you pressurize the air tube/bottle again, there would now be tiny openings between the contact areas from which air escapes. It's kind of like an automobile engine gasket--when the engine cover is opened up, typically, a new gasket needs to be installed since the previous one's custom-fitted form by the internal pressures it had endured from the engine's load through operation has been lost.
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That's why I always cringe whenever folks got regulator problems and first thing they really wanna disassemble their guns since I have many unregulated PCPs more than 20 years old still holding air never been disassembled.
Once you disassemble your PCP expect to replace every single o-ring in that gun since its been devirginized.
Same goes for guns stored with zero air for a long period of time.
You see so many people experience leak issues not even related to the actual regulator problems after taking their guns apart after the first time. I am most certainly not surprised.
I have yet to own any regulated gun that can outlast and give no problems compared to unregulated guns.
RAW would probably be right on top of the long term reliability list had they not added regulators and kept them exactly like the unregulated Theoben Rapids IMHO.
My FX500 shoots a lot more accurate at extended extreme long distance shooting after the regulator was removed.
Once you disassemble your PCP expect to replace every single o-ring in that gun since its been devirginized.
Same goes for guns stored with zero air for a long period of time.
You see so many people experience leak issues not even related to the actual regulator problems after taking their guns apart after the first time. I am most certainly not surprised.
I have yet to own any regulated gun that can outlast and give no problems compared to unregulated guns.
RAW would probably be right on top of the long term reliability list had they not added regulators and kept them exactly like the unregulated Theoben Rapids IMHO.
My FX500 shoots a lot more accurate at extended extreme long distance shooting after the regulator was removed.
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Also, regulators need time to break in. Some may take longer than others to settle before extreme consistency is achieved. The key to understanding this is that almost all regulators use delrin as a sealing surface. Over time--throughout the break-in period--when the sealing end of the regulator piston closes by seating itself against the delrin face it forces extreme pressure on it and digs (creeps) deeper (I'm talking micrometers here) into the delrin until it cannot do so any further (that's why you would normally see an imprint or circle of the piston end on the delrin face). I believe this is one reason why regulator creep, the kind that leads to a higher-than-usual-velocity first shot, happens. When the course of regulator break-in is complete consistent shots are the result.
I should also mention that since adjusting the regulator and replacing the O-rings before reassembly with new ones on my Cricket to turn the power down, which was back in 2014, it has not leaked to this day. And the shot-to-shot consistency? Four hundred and fifty shots over a 220 - 50 BAR fill range with an extreme spread of 12 FPS (at 7 FPE, which is all I need plinking in my back yard and for the occasional garden pest riddance). I'd say the new regulator set point has settled nicely indeed.
Cheers!
I should also mention that since adjusting the regulator and replacing the O-rings before reassembly with new ones on my Cricket to turn the power down, which was back in 2014, it has not leaked to this day. And the shot-to-shot consistency? Four hundred and fifty shots over a 220 - 50 BAR fill range with an extreme spread of 12 FPS (at 7 FPE, which is all I need plinking in my back yard and for the occasional garden pest riddance). I'd say the new regulator set point has settled nicely indeed.
Cheers!
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Especially Cringeworthy too first thing adjusting their regulators in their BRAND NEW PCPS!!!
Of course they gonna creep!!!
Of course they gonna creep!!!
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Well, sounds like the consensus is as I originally suspected. With 100% agreement, everyone who piped in thinks that the bottle and reg should be left under load to keep the O-rings and seals in their "fitted" states.
I understand the convenience of having multiple small bottles ready to go instead of lugging around a large CF bottle (in the case of FX bottles). But do you guys think that consistently swapping out bottles on the rifle itself does more harm than good? Every time I've ever degassed my bottle, and refilled, I always had to cycle several dozen rounds through the rifle to get the reg to settle back in. Also, who knows how much it shortened the life of the O-rings. Do you guys think that bottle swapping on FX rifles does more damage than good? If you have to cycle 20-30 rounds through the gun to get the reg to settle back in, you've just wasted 25% of the volume in the bottle (if you're set for high power as in the case of .25 or .30 rifles). Wouldn't it be easier, better, and less wasteful to bite the bullet and tote the larger CF bottle with you and just top off the bottle as needed?
This is a good discussion.... I love the feedback guys. I'm super interested in where you guys stand on this.
I understand the convenience of having multiple small bottles ready to go instead of lugging around a large CF bottle (in the case of FX bottles). But do you guys think that consistently swapping out bottles on the rifle itself does more harm than good? Every time I've ever degassed my bottle, and refilled, I always had to cycle several dozen rounds through the rifle to get the reg to settle back in. Also, who knows how much it shortened the life of the O-rings. Do you guys think that bottle swapping on FX rifles does more damage than good? If you have to cycle 20-30 rounds through the gun to get the reg to settle back in, you've just wasted 25% of the volume in the bottle (if you're set for high power as in the case of .25 or .30 rifles). Wouldn't it be easier, better, and less wasteful to bite the bullet and tote the larger CF bottle with you and just top off the bottle as needed?
This is a good discussion.... I love the feedback guys. I'm super interested in where you guys stand on this.
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Not even one single issue shuffling my prefilled multiple bottles among my Theoben Rapids ever. They aren't regulated either and dont even need regulators. You have to unscrew the bottles to fill them anyway.
Apparently RAW needs regulators to shoot good so I really wonder why? They should have just copied Theoben 100%.
Apparently RAW needs regulators to shoot good so I really wonder why? They should have just copied Theoben 100%.
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