Regulators: Advanced Knowledge & Information of them Wanted

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deadhorse

deadhorse

Member
Mar 15, 2021
125
3
UT, United States
Regulators am I right.... WOW! 

I have been searching for advanced info on regulators and have come up short, videos and reviews talk about the performance or the installation of them and I cant find good reviews comparing the popular regulators against each other.

I am looking for the detailed information and information to help me understand exactly how they work and if they work differently from each other, how the modifications that people make affect them, which ones might need mods to be good or better, and the pros and cons of the major brands compared to each other. There has to be a regulator Guru on this forum that has messed with most of the major brands and give his thoughts on which ones are best and why and pros and cons and mods.

When I hear or read things without an explanation like "I enlarged my plenum" "I deleted my plenum" and they dont give a how or why it sends me on a quest for knowledge.

I am also curious to the pros and cons of the installation differences between the regulators, some you need to drill a hole, some you have to file threads, some you leave out a o-ring, and some they say you dont have to do anything at all. 

Some of the major brands I would like thoughts on are Huma, Lane, Altaros, and maybe even some factory regs compared to each other and any others. I see they can vary by brass or stainless and fat and thin, short and long. And I am sure they vary by quality, consistency and longevity also. I want to make a informed purchase so any help you can share is appreciated. 

So take me to school on Regs.
 
Simple enough devise ..... Pretty in depth in how Spool diameter ratios, spring rates & travel, Adjusting spring preload or seat height for set point adjusting is designed, along with the VERY IMPORTANT Seat type !!! Seats and air delivery path can be Side intake, Center intake with requiring a different size and configuration to minimize the pressure exerted on the HP end of spool with changes in tank pressure.



Yea i personally understand ALL these dynamics in play, but yet to of ever read it in a complete conversation. Years of working with / on many many regulators have I been able to wrap my mind around all the way to make / design a high pressure regulator.

Fast cyclic OR Accurate Set point recovery ??? Generally you seldom get both, but can with the correct configuration and set up.
 
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its like any other tuning topic .. nobody can really tell you an exact formula ..ive not been messing with them long and can already see that as far as the 'regulating an unregulated gun' scenario goes its not a simple matter of you install a regulator and your gun magically transforms .. the best you can get 'easy' is the same basic shot count at the high power level with 'maybe' alittle better consistency in the spread .. it takes that tuning to maximize things especially for target where a slightly reduced velocity might be acceptable .. far as brands im sure the big names didnt get those by them being a suckfest .. so again, at my new level of digging into them, the revelation has been what your expecting out of it ..my take so far is paper pounders will enjoy a reg a lot more than a hunter ..
 
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For what it's worth, though I'm extremely well-learned on airguns generally, I'm only somewhat educated on airgun regulators specifically. That confessed, I have much expertise in conveying information through the written word; not an easy proposition for most folks, even many intelligent individuals. But easy or not (for any given individual), I can state in utter confidence that any information can be conveyed in conversation better (in person, or long-distance) in a fraction of the time investment required to scratch the surface by keyboard. 

And the more complicated or involved a subject (like airgun regulators), the exponentially more time required for any worthwhile transfer of information by keyboard. Hence the reason I often tell (rather, keyboard) anyone I volunteer to share knowledge/information with to CALL ME, knowing full-well they'll gain greater insight into any subject by conversation in a fraction of the time investment required of the selfless giver. And not all experts are selfless givers; though some were as long as they could before it ate too much of their time.

Understand that I am not criticizing your post or information request; I'm not. Simply stating some facts that escape some folks; and making a request on behalf of selfless givers everywhere that recipients of such selfless gifts... RECIPROCATE (in some way).

If you're still with me, now you must endure my little regulator story. 

Though I've been a serious enough airgunner for over six decades to have taken game few hunters would think possible with airguns, capture a couple dozen State and National Champion airgun titles and NRA National Record certificates, and author four or five books on airgunning, only within the last two weeks have I installed my first airgun regulator. Nevertheless my (admittedly limited) regulator experience might be interesting enough to post here, even if not particularly enlightening. Thankfully I have a close friend widely considered one of the most guru of professional airgunsmiths on Airgun Nation, who is also a selfless giver (so far, anyway) to help me (by conversations). BTW, I reciprocate his help in every way I can. 

Having purchased an inexpensive unregulated .30 caliber PCP maxi-blaster about three months ago with the express purpose of turning it into a viable long-range airgun competition(s) rifle if it showed enough promise (accuracy), once it did, I set about DE-tuning the 150 foot-pound BEAST to the 80 foot-pound(ish) power level limit of one of two kinds of long-range (to 100 yards) airgun competitions I shoot (and host). Not being a machinist, rather a shade-tree "gunsmith" employing hack-saws, grinders, files, drills, and weak-mindedly obstinate resolve, each step in the three-month detuning and testing process yielded 'promising' result after promising result.

AEA 100 yard.1631567116.jpg
 

By the time I found the exact charge-pressure (120 BAR) required to return a bell-curve power-band of just six competition-worthy shots (with an extreme spread of no more than 25 FPS), The Beast was shooting as accurately at 100 yards as any airgun at any price (regulated or not). At that point, and with only six competition-worthy shots per charge being a huge handicap in competitions against the best shooters using the finest airguns on Earth, I ordered what I'd come to consider the best regulator on the market, a Huma. Huma had to custom build it for The Beast (after return of their prototype specialist from his two-week annual holiday). 

That Derrick, aka- ZX10wall on this forum held my hand through the nuances of installing it in a few phone conversations is the reason the installation went completely trouble-free, and was utterly successful! The beautiful beast now not only returns 24 impressively-regulated shots per 280 BAR fill, but combined with my variation on the "B-Staley tune" (o-ring between the hammer and valve) does so at 24 FPS faster velocity than pre-regulation. As taken from my testing notes-

44.75 grain JSB, Huma regged, HDD o-ring, 280 BAR fill, 24 shot powerband- Low= 914, Hi= 934, ES= 20, SD= 4, Average= 920 FPS/84.1 FP 

Oh, and another thing. The (now-regulated) Beast averages 1.06" center-to-center five-shot groups at 100 yards... outdoors. Derrick will understand the significance and inferences of the last word in that last sentence better than any other reader.

AEA 30 and target.1631567447.jpg


I owe you yet another reciprocation Derrick... BIG TIME! I'll start with this.

ZX10wall on this forum is an extremely talented, thorough, meticulous, conscientious, and now professional airgunsmith of the highest order; universally highly respected among his peers. He specializes in regulated PCP repair, tuning, and power modifications. Anyone interested in his professional services with more technical smarts than me can track him down easily enough with the clues I've given. Anyone not interested in paying for his services, please refrain from tracking him down at all!

In closing I'll make a couple last, pertinent points. 1) "If all else fails, read the owners manual". 2) If that fails, HIRE A PROFESSIONAL. And lastly, in this day and age when professional incompetence seems not only widespread, but normalized to the point of near-universality, if you find a professional that is actually competent, not only do not begrudge him his professional rate, but if he exceeds your expectations, also...

3) TIP HIM... HANDSOMELY!

Oops... just thought of number 4) If you manage to cheat a competent professional down on his rate, don't be surprised when his work load is too back-logged the next time you need his services to "work you in"!






 
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When I ran the local apprenticeship school for the sheet metal workers one of the things I had to convey to the instructors was to forget the fact that they’ve been in this industry for 20 to 35 years when teaching a class to students who still don’t understand the correct way to use a pair of Wiss tin snips. 

“You gotta get down to the students level” when explaining, and “put yourself in their shoes”.

Don’t assume all people in this pcp hobby will understand what a regs “vent hole” is for, why the concave washer springs are set in a staggered position within the reg, and what a “plenum” is. I always ended my lecture to the instructors with “If you can’t take the time to explain what the 3-4-5 rule is, or carefully explain basic soldering safety of why muriatic acid is added directly to the water in a flux mix and not the other way around, then you’ll fail by talking over a students head. 

Trigonometry was always the toughest subject for an instructor to get down to a students level, lol.

The OP if I read his initial post correctly is asking for a reg 101 tutorial, and like AIRNGASMAN has hinted on, its best handled thru a pm to discuss, or a link to a good video(both in how they work and install procedures)on how regulators are used in the Airgun industry.
 
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