Registration at EBR

[Richieg]

I think I remember reading, but I can't be sure, about how previous winners at EBR were automatically registered at the event the following year or years. I know a shooter who has won at EBR and questioned this person a couple years ago about having to hurry and register, and was told by this person that registration wasn't a problem, they already had a bench. That would hold true to what I remember reading.Am I correct?

 

[SpiralGroove]

Yes, I think Nikolay Boldov should get in somehow. The Best Shooters in the World shouldn't be disallowed on a "technicality".

 

[Richieg]

If previous winners automatically get a spot, then there shouldn't be a issue with whoever it is, Nikolay or anybody else.
EVERYBODY has an opinion...here is mine.
EBR is a manufacturer/ team competition, designed to generate revenue. The average shooter, as it is being run now, won't be able to get a bench. There are too many already taken by the "TEAMS" and the "GUYS".
THEN after MOST of the benches are already taken, it's opened up, and 15 seconds later ALL the benches are taken.
But you are still encouraged to come out and WATCH and cheer those guys on.Like WTF...like I am going to travel 1/2 way across the USA to WATCH a event I couldn't get a bench for?
RULE 10 of THIS forum says NO POLITICS ALLOWED.
The whole process and the way EBR is being run and how shooters are SELECTED or NOT, REEKS of politics.
I've said it before being chastised on the forum, from the moderators...there is POLITICS IN EVERYTHING, some just can't handel the truth.
But the sun still rises and sets and us regular mere mortal airgun shooter will still shoot.

 

[SpiralGroove]

THEN after MOST of the benches are already taken, it's opened up, and 15 seconds later ALL the benches are taken.
But you are still encouraged to come out and WATCH and cheer those guys on.
-> Like WTF...like I am going to travel 1/2 way across the USA to WATCH a event I couldn't get a bench for?

RULE 10 of THIS forum says NO POLITICS ALLOWED.

-> The whole process and the way EBR is being run and how shooters are SELECTED or NOT, REEKS of politics.
-> I've said it before being chastised on the forum, from the moderators...there is POLITICS IN EVERYTHING, some just can't handle the truth.
-> But the sun still rises and sets and us regular mere mortal airgun shooter will still shoot.

-> Agree

-> Yes
-> Yes
-> Yes

 

[XSUltimate]

Two years ago I was able to get into EBR and there was an equal amount of Sportsman class and Pro class shooters. Last years entries tell you exactly what is going on as for the qualifying there were 3 relays of 40 Pro shooters and only 1 relay of 40 sportsman shooters. For the 2022 100 yard finals, there were 30 pro shooters and only 10 Sportsman. The Sportsman class was positioned in the first 10 lanes where there are multiple impediments that affect pellet flight such as various berms that you had to shoot over. The Pro's undoubtedly received preferential lane assignments. This pretty much explains the direction that EBR and other major air gun events are headed. All factory and sponsored shooters are the only ones that will be able to shoot. pretty much fact for what the future holds. It will be an exclusive event in the very near future. This is not a dig on EBR as all of the major events take the same approach!
P.S. All of these major events need to publish full disclosure on availablity of entrants and lane assignments and independent scoring to be fair.
Thx
Dan

 

[markhooper]

one big reason I am not interested in competition shooting.. they might as well put it on TV that way you can watch from home but I don't have TV so I won't be bothered personally I think everyone should just say with those rules we're not interested in coming.. vote with your money.. and there's plenty of wide open spaces in the USA if no range is available to set up a competition for anyone.. besides it is supposed to be fun for all.. not a exclusive thing.. just go with your favorite rifle and have fun.. make some easy.. 50 yards and harder.. maybe have a 1000 yard challenge
end of the day.. have fun or don't bother..
Mark

 

[Richieg]

Here we go again. Back to the future.

Dan, the Sportsmen ALWAYS get that end of the range. At least since I started coming in 2018.

WHY do the sportsman get THAT end of the range? If that's the harder end to shoot from shouldn't the PRO's want that end to show their superior shooting and talent being the cream of the crop and not the sportsman? So the range set up is to make it harder for sportsman and easier for PRO's?

This sport is growing exponentially and having growing pains like any other rapidly growing sport.

GROWING PAINS? It geared and set up for the TEAMS and the GUYS. If the numbers were shared as to the number of ALL the different TEAMS shooters as well as all the GUYS, I'm thinking you would see just exactly how it's set up. No knock on EBR but call a spade a spade.Its their event and they can run it anyway they want.

What if a shooter was placed on the early list, and told he needed to sign up like everyone else on the early list, but didn’t? Things that make you go hmmm…

ANY early list of a bunch of approved shooters, shows exactly whats going on, with registration.Like I said before it's their event and they can run it anyway they want.They very well could make it invitation only. As well as any other similar event.
Here's A IDEA:How about taking ALL the PRO registrations and put them in a box and draw for benches and do that for ALL the SPORTSMAN, that way EVERYONE would get a CHANCE for a bench. I don't think those out here in the real world would complain about a system like that, BUT those on the early approved list probably would complain of they didn't get a bench. IVE watched it happen in other shooting as well as non shooting sports.... Do you know WHO I AM , ECT....
It's not the end of the world or even a bump in the road where I live, but for some it's a major hurdle the way it's all went down.

 

[Centercut]

WHY do the sportsman get THAT end of the range? If that's the harder end to shoot from shouldn't the PRO's want that end to show their superior shooting and talent being the cream of the crop and not the sportsman? So the range set up is to make it harder for sportsman and easier for PRO's?

That one’s easy. Pros shoot against Pros, Sportsmen shoot against Sportsmen. Easy day. Sportsmen shoot on equivalent benches. Pros shoot on equivalent bench’s. How else could it possibly be done. If you’d ever been there you’d see my point.

 

[SpiralGroove]

At the end of the day -> hopefully these Marketing events aren't revenue makers for the Owner's groups.
Marketing events like this and Shot Show - should be a way to advertise - its gonna cost them - but will be re-paid in sales!

Yes - add more availability as nonojo65 has suggested, keep the event fun, but add to the precision of scoring.
Most in the Sportsman class just want a competitive, fun shoot anyway - otherwise move to Pro.

 

[Nico5999]

Two years ago I was able to get into EBR and there was an equal amount of Sportsman class and Pro class shooters. Last years entries tell you exactly what is going on as for the qualifying there were 3 relays of 40 Pro shooters and only 1 relay of 40 sportsman shooters. For the 2022 100 yard finals, there were 30 pro shooters and only 10 Sportsman. The Sportsman class was positioned in the first 10 lanes where there are multiple impediments that affect pellet flight such as various berms that you had to shoot over. The Pro's undoubtedly received preferential lane assignments. This pretty much explains the direction that EBR and other major air gun events are headed. All factory and sponsored shooters are the only ones that will be able to shoot. pretty much fact for what the future holds. It will be an exclusive event in the very near future. This is not a dig on EBR as all of the major events take the same approach!
P.S. All of these major events need to publish full disclosure on availablity of entrants and lane assignments and independent scoring to be fair.
Thx
Dan

I don't know anything about the alleged politicking going on and I really don't care to comment on that, but I want to address your comment about the disparity between the number of pro vs sportsman shooters.

Pro-class is open, which means that anyone can register for that class. I've been to 3 RMAC's and 2 EBR's and I have talked to dozens of first time shooters that told me that felt like they should have shot sportsman class but registered for the pro-class because they wanted a shot at the big bucks. That is why there are so many more "pros". Having a "closed" pro-class that would require some sort of sponsorship or qualification to enter would absolutely even out the two classes. Maybe not to 50-50, but it would make sure that some of the folks that the sportsman class was designed for (i.e., first-timers or guys dipping their two in the water) are shooting that class.

W/ regards to your comments about the pro vs sportsman lane assignments. That isn't malicious to give the pros higher scores, it just makes sense. For the 50 yard benchrest event, the springer shooters shoot alongside the PCP's but are assigned lanes 1-10 so that ALL the springer shooters have to deal with those berms, but the PCP shooters get the same terrain. If you had 10 pro-class shooters shooting over those berms and the other 30 shooters in the same division competing for the same prizes but shooting a fundamentally different course that isn't fair. If all 10 sportsman have to shoot over those berms that ensures that the playing field is level for THAT division.

A lot of speculation in this thread about rule changes, revenue, etc that doesn't really make sense given the realities of this industry.

 

[rhbrink]

Looks like to me it's time for a National 100, standardized targets shot at a neutral site somewhere in the Mid-West. I call the Mid-West somewhere between Raton and Ohio. NO classes sign up and shoot! Have three or four days of qualifying rounds, for the final the top three to five in each qualifying rounds shoot shoulder to shoulder, draw benches, shoot three cards, change bench for each card.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[Centercut]

Looks like to me it's time for a National 100, standardized targets shot at a neutral site somewhere in the Mid-West. I call the Mid-West somewhere between Raton and Ohio. NO classes sign up and shoot! Have three or four days of qualifying rounds, for the final the top three to five in each qualifying rounds shoot shoulder to shoulder, draw benches, shoot three cards, change bench for each card.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Interesting idea but... the N50 bubbas tried to garner interest for that and failed. IMHO driving 13 hours or more to shoot for 1/2 hour per day (or an hour) just doesn't seem like the juice is worth the squeeze. At both EBR and RMAC, the shooter is engaged for three full day (four if he makes the finals), so he gets to shoot a LOT. And that keeps everyone busy and interested. The NAC had a chance to do that but instead patterned their tournament after EBR, as PAC is doing and has done. Shooters making a trip want to shoot! We do it for the fun... (95% or more of the shooters in Pro Class aren't really Pros...). Maybe 5 or 6 total that earn a living shooting an airgun.

 

[jdwarren]

Looks like to me it's time for a National 100, standardized targets shot at a neutral site somewhere in the Mid-West. I call the Mid-West somewhere between Raton and Ohio. NO classes sign up and shoot! Have three or four days of qualifying rounds, for the final the top three to five in each qualifying rounds shoot shoulder to shoulder, draw benches, shoot three cards, change bench for each card.

Sounds interesting. When are you planning to hold this event?

--Jim

 

[Loufish]

Yup Mike. We N50 “bubbas” did try to N100 but it failed because the big talkers didnt want to shoot real Benchrest - probably when they tried to compete they failed with excuses. But then I heard “fun shoots are fun”.

For clarity, and just in case someone might believe the "1/2 hr per day" thing below - N50 Nationals shoots over 3 days which includes Friday for practice, 6 real cards for 3 classes, 18 cards equals 6 hours of trigger time. Unless you're "quick" shooter. Then add the hoopla and the day is longer. Starts ~8am and is over about 3pm. Range is open after the day match for more practice "if" you need it. BTW, N50 Nationals are $250 for the entire event.
Dan is it really $350 for pro 2 cards?

Bubba Louie
Register: https://practiscore.com/2023-n50-national-championship/register
National 50 Benchrest National Championship Signup: N50 Championship Sign-Up
N50: https://www.national50.net/

 

[Loufish]

For those that need receipts and for those that don’t know. Plenty here had opinions about it at the time.

Who’s the King of 100?

I’m wondering how many might be interested in a 100y pellet match that is solely designed to pinpoint the best 100y pellet shooter? The following is a short list of key differences in the format in comparison to the other 100y matches. 1. No big money, no hype, no side events…just a 100y...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[XSUltimate]

I don't know anything about the alleged politicking going on and I really don't care to comment on that, but I want to address your comment about the disparity between the number of pro vs sportsman shooters.

Pro-class is open, which means that anyone can register for that class. I've been to 3 RMAC's and 2 EBR's and I have talked to dozens of first time shooters that told me that felt like they should have shot sportsman class but registered for the pro-class because they wanted a shot at the big bucks. That is why there are so many more "pros". Having a "closed" pro-class that would require some sort of sponsorship or qualification to enter would absolutely even out the two classes. Maybe not to 50-50, but it would make sure that some of the folks that the sportsman class was designed for (i.e., first-timers or guys dipping their two in the water) are shooting that class.

W/ regards to your comments about the pro vs sportsman lane assignments. That isn't malicious to give the pros higher scores, it just makes sense. For the 50 yard benchrest event, the springer shooters shoot alongside the PCP's but are assigned lanes 1-10 so that ALL the springer shooters have to deal with those berms, but the PCP shooters get the same terrain. If you had 10 pro-class shooters shooting over those berms and the other 30 shooters in the same division competing for the same prizes but shooting a fundamentally different course that isn't fair. If all 10 sportsman have to shoot over those berms that ensures that the playing field is level for THAT division.

A lot of speculation in this thread about rule changes, revenue, etc that doesn't really make sense given the realities of this industry.

Hi Nick,
I do agree with what you said for the most part. Thanks for saying that there was no malice intended in lane assigments as I never wanted to imply that, so thank you! The facility IS a limiting factor at EBR to make it same conditions for all shooters. But I'm not sure I agree that it is fair that the sportsman class are placed in the less favorable lanes. The sportsman pay the same amount to enter as the Pro's, so why are they singled out? I understand the organizers want to do what they can to make it as fair as possible for both classes. A different venue would help that effort tremendously. I think the 50-50 split you alluded to might be closer to 80/20 registration for Pro. There is a large number of competitors sporting factory or team shirts. Those 20 are lured by the possibility of higher payout. But for one person to have no chance to draw a more manageable lane for the competition is not really fair in my opinion. When paying $350 to enter just as the Pro class, I should have the same opportunity they have for a more desirable shooting lane. That doesn't happen. There is no winner in this situation as it is not fair to split the Pro shooters up but in the same respect, why predetermine that the sportsman should face a bigger challenge? It is what it is until a different venue. There is No way that I would try to run the event, as it is a no win situation. I was merely stating what my personal experiences were and wanted to share what to expect for other shooters wanting to enter. There is a lot of politics involved which I also don't care for very much at all. But I feel without equal treatment for all competitors, we call it what it is, an industry showcase because shooter A and shooter B are not treated the same. And it would be nice to know up front how many Pro slots and sportsman slots are available. A new venue may eliminate the disparities that I see but maybe not too.
I do still plan on visiting and talking with all of the excellent people that shoot and all of those hard working people that work so hard to put this on for us. If it weren't for those people, I'd just be plinking in the backyard! Boring!
Thx
Dan

 

[rhbrink]

Interesting idea but... the N50 bubbas tried to garner interest for that and failed. IMHO driving 13 hours or more to shoot for 1/2 hour per day (or an hour) just doesn't seem like the juice is worth the squeeze. At both EBR and RMAC, the shooter is engaged for three full day (four if he makes the finals), so he gets to shoot a LOT. And that keeps everyone busy and interested. The NAC had a chance to do that but instead patterned their tournament after EBR, as PAC is doing and has done. Shooters making a trip want to shoot! We do it for the fun... (95% or more of the shooters in Pro Class aren't really Pros...). Maybe 5 or 6 total that earn a living shooting an airgun.

What I was talking about was just the 100 yard event. Of course, if someone was to pull this off you would have to include a daily side matches. I would be thinking qualifying rounds in the morning and then 25M benchrest matches, N50, Extreme Silhouette, Silo, range permitting long range gongs, whatever to make it worthwhile to get people there and give them plenty to shoot at.

For a reply to jdwarren, not anytine soon!

 

[Centercut]

What I was talking about was just the 100 yard event. Of course, if someone was to pull this off you would have to include a daily side matches. I would be thinking qualifying rounds in the morning and then 25M benchrest matches, N50, Extreme Silhouette, Silo, range permitting long range gongs, whatever to make it worthwhile to get people there and give them plenty to shoot at.

For a reply to jdwarren, not anytine soon!

Gotcha... I think the issue is that "someone" turns into "no one". Your tournament above sounds just like EBR/RMAC/NAC/PAC... There are two qualifying cards and then a finals. More than that just doesn't fit unless the tournament is specifically for 100Y BR. And that hasn't garnered any interest except for the keyboard shooters here on AGN...

 

[Richieg]

Surely you don't think there are keyboard shooters on AGN...C'mon Mike...

 

[Richieg]

Gotcha... I think the issue is that "someone" turns into "no one". Your tournament above sounds just like EBR/RMAC/NAC/PAC... There are two qualifying cards and then a finals. More than that just doesn't fit unless the tournament is specifically for 100Y BR. And that hasn't garnered any interest except for the keyboard shooters here on AGN...

The above you mentioned, you shoot 2 cards to qualify and then 1 for the 100 yard match. Why not just shoot 1card to qualify and then the 1 card match? If you shoot 2 or more cards to qualify from different benches, you could shoot 2 or more for the 100 yard match. Take the aggregate overall score and have the actual best shooter at the event at that time. I understand that would take a lot of manpower and more time, but 1 card in 1 relay to determine the top shooter at Extreme BENCHREST, is a stretch calling ANY winner the best shooter at the event. ANYBODY who shoots BENCHREST knows that you WILL make a mistake, some of us more than others it's just when and where. THAT'S why you shoot multiple cards.
I wish everybody who shoots at the event good luck and have fun.