Red Wolf HP Woes/Options

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Dan, the RW trigger adjustment takes patience, but you can get about anything you want in the second stage release weight. The first stage is kind of a gimmick, since there is no mechanical first stage. I found the "first stage" feel lacking, so I just adjusted it out and use it as single stage which, to me, feels much better. Mine is at about 3 ounces. I had it on 6 ounces, but it felt heavy to me for bench use. I found the best technique is using a long L shaped hex wrench for leverage. This is not because you need to crank down on it, just the opposite, you need the most control you can get. When you feel the screw move, you have probably moved it too much. I got my final adjustments by applying some turning pressure, but stopping to test it before I actually felt any movement at all, it's that sensitive. If you are even the least bit ham fisted in your technique, you are in for a very long, very frustrating day! Good luck. 
 
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Thank you for the feedback - sounds like, other than the spiraling, the RW HP is doing about factory specs. 

I will take Dr. Mike up on his offer for the programmer, but let me figure out the spiraling first. Shooting at 55 yrds on High still gave a shotgun pattern with the heavies - that suggests something in the barrel, moderator or shroud. I will try changing out the moderator (or no moderator) and pushing a pellet through the barrel today and report back. 

Thanks again,

Dan
 
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Dan - to add to the conversation - Dr. Mike is a good guy. If you want to try adjusting with a tuner I'd take him up on his offer to borrow one. As for stock velocity on high with JSB 34s - my new .25 HP Red Wolf shoots them at 801 fps. 

This is a small test I did with 3 of my favorite pellets with the Red Wolf .25 HP right out of the box.

1597243195_3758707615f33ff3b68c120.79380388.jpg

 
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Dan, you've picked up a gen 1 Red Wolf. What you're getting out of it is really about all you can reasonably expect. (7.4 v battery) My suggestion would be to stick to 25.4s and try to keep them around 900. There are a few touchups on the breech that should help with accuracy in those pre ART barrels and they can be VERY good so don't be discouraged in any way. The 34 gn will likely not shoot well, no matter what. It won't really hurt it to push it some if you get the programmer but again, I think you'll see best results around 900 w Kings.

You mention the Heliboard and it's a really nice option for convenience of programming but won't give you much more power as you're limited by the 7.4 v battery. The G2 versions (Safari) use an 11.1 v battery and additional changes were different valve stem, hardened hammer, and the elimination of a flat spring under the safety block that would break if pushed too hard. A rifle CAN be upgraded, but I'm not sure where you could get the parts. I don't think there is a kit. To do the upgrade, you would need a battery harness, battery, valve stem , and GC2 board or Heliboard. The hardened hammer would be a plus.

What I'm really saying here is that if you spend time getting it to shoot Kings well and not dwell on the heavy and high power, you'll be happier. They are nice rifles, regardless. 

Bob
 
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Fellas my offer stands for anyone on the forum...

If you want to borrow the programmer just shoot me a message....The OP has first dibs but sounds like he has a spiraling issue to resolve so if anyone else has a need just let me know....

I know 400 bucks just to tune a gun is pricy (especially after spending 2500+ on the gun to begin with)!! and my tuning is done so why not share!!!

Also AoA has a great spreadsheet you can download to keep track of your original settings (or take a pic so you can revert back if needed)...

VERY simple to use just connect it, power on the gun and it will show the MK5 menu, view your current settings, up your pulse lengths for more power or lower them for less power.....Once you get the hang of it you can have the gun out of the stock and programmed in 5 minutes....

Also try the Hybrids....My .25 and .22 HP love them at around 925+ I am not a slug guy but they were impressive!

Stay Safe!!
 
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Dan, my apologies.

I incorrectly assumed in my first response that you had a Gen 2 rifle, which is why I reacted to the 810 FPS on high vs. my 947 FPS with the 34g MK2’s. I also reacted to your comment that some pellets were off the paper target. I guess the 25g are worth pursuing and Bob knows these RWs. 

FWIW, the JSB Kings at 25g and at 900 FPS shot very well at 100 yards in no wind conditions for my Gen 2 Safari. 

Bob - thanks for clarifying the differences between the Gen 1 vs. Gen 2 RWs. 
 
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So, to sum this up, Red Wolf HP Gen1 is limited to 50 ftlbs max., maybe a little bit more with the tuning tool.

Given that constraint, I might be better off getting a .22 barrel kit for about $450 to get higher speeds for heavier pellets for benchrest.

I tried the RW HP out again at lunch with the DonnyFL Sumo that does well on my impact (though heavier than the Huggett). 10-shot group was 3". I took off the moderator and the sound was not bad. JSB 34 gr were at best 1.75" to 2" @ 75 yards - one group started to form at about 1", but then there was a flyer low. Definitely spiraling. JSB 25gr, no moderator was about 1" at best @ 75 yds. So there is definitely something wrong with either the shroud or barrel that the moderators are making worse. More exploration on this tonight.

I guess I have to look at this as a "puzzle" present. 

Thanks again,

Dan
 
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Dan, you will still have a similar limitation with 22 with the 7.4v battery. Mine started life as a Gen 1 in 22. 930 w 25.4s was where it was happiest. Would make 970, but no more and wasn't happy there. Your valve body has a slightly bigger port than mine, so you MIGHT be able to get a little more, but you might reach out to Daystate in England to see if the parts could be bought to make it Gen2. It truly has power to spare. I was fortunate to be able to get mine from AoA but it was for a testing project and I think the parts are hard to come by for them.

You might load a pellet and then pull the barrel with it still in and check that it clears the transfer port then carefully push it back out(helps to remove the breech oring). Look at it really closely to see if there is damage from the transfer port or rifling engagement. This is a common area of improvement on most rifles with 90 degree transfer ports. It would be odd for the shroud to cause your issue but a moderator definitely could. The muzzle end shroud support might be loose, as well. Not common but it's possible.

Sorry for you troubles but it SHOULD be fixable.

Bob
 
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Bob,

I would be pretty happy with 930 (or maybe a little more) with 22 monsters. Not too bad of a speed. I have tried higher on my impact, but accuracy went south. Good suggestion on reaching out to Daystate to see if I can get upgraded parts - this Gen 1 seems pretty limited for only being about 1.5 years old. 

Also good suggestion on loading a pellet through the chambering area 1st to see if there is damage, before pushing one through. I polished the area pretty well, but something might still be sticking out. This is a problem area for the Brococks as well - Daystate really doesn't finish these parts properly. The crown wasn't as clean as I was expecting to see, so maybe there is a burr there as well.

Thanks for all of the advice!

Dan
 
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Just a few comments. My RW HP .22 produces nearly exactly 50 FPE as tuned but Ken Hicks at SPAW. He is so good with these rifles it might be worth at least a call to him to see what is realistic to expect with your rifle.

Second, My RAW HM1000X .25 shoots the King Heavy 33.95 grain pellets like a laser at 100 yards, at 890 FPS. So you may not have to get to +900 FPS. 


Third, I just love this forum and the support so generously offered by members on a regular basis.
 
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I would have already mailed the action to AoA for a better barrel replaced under warranty. It should be MOA capable at 100 yards.
Click to expand...

Agree. Steve will make it right. There is too much good bourbon to be sipped to waste time on a problem like this. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Dan 

I have been following for days. At this point I am disengaging from the thread, only because I think you SHOULD work with AoA. You have plenty of great advice if you want to tinker. 

if not, update post as to how you resolve your issue. 



 
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I've been reading this thread with interest. I dont want to high jack this thread but it seems like there is a good focus of RedWolf expertise here and I want to try to tap into it. I have a .177 RW with Gen 1 board and regular power. I bought the rifle new in May of this year and love it, putting in well over 15K shots through it. When I got the RW I used my chronographs and the rifle was spot on with the specs provided from the factory evaluation and a 2nd evaluation from Baker airguns. I was happy and put the chronograph away.

With a 10.3 grain AA pellet and a cleaned barrel it shot the following:

High 904fps

Med 827fps

Low 721fps



After 3-4 weeks I pulled out the chrony again and the rifle has lost some power. Testing every couple of weeks it seems that this loss in power is not due to temperature, pressure in air tank, pellet batches, etc., as the velocity remains the same. Also, I have changed the breech o-ring, the 2 o-rings that flank the transfer port, and the index pin o-ring (changing all at least 2 times just in case). The loss in velocity is small 3.5% - 4.5%, the rifle shoots straight with the SS tray, but I'm just curious as to why there is this loss of power. A respected forum member suggested I purchase the programmer and just adjust the power up and I may do that but it seems excessive. One day I may send the rifle in to have it checked out, but was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts. 

High 870 fps (-34 fps, -3.5%)

Medium 787 fps (-40fps, -4.5%)

Low (cant find string)



Sorry to slightly change the topic, and I'm happy start another thread if necessary.

Thanks, 5thumbs
 
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Thanks to everyone for the advice. I always subscribe to the theory that you should KNOW your problem before asking someone to fix it. Otherwise how do you know it's fixed for good.

Here's what I looked at and tried today/tonight:

  1. Removed the barrel and tried a Brocock - no go, different diameters. Bummer
  2. I checked the shroud area - there was definitely a lop-sided lead pattern on the stripper. Both sides had it, so very curious. Don't know if this is coincidence or maybe a hint that either the pellet is askew or the shroud is off some.
  3. Loaded a pellet, removed the barrel to see the impressions and pushed the pellet out the breech. The JSB MK1 Heavy seemed to start engaging already in the head and skirt area. The throat area had a well defined shoulder and was pretty rough. This got hit again with the polish below.
  4. Checked and re-polished the transfer port/throat area. There was a very slight burr that I removed and re-polished the area.
  5. Adjusted the shroud collar a bit - it seemed to be touching the gun block. I was theorizing that maybe the barrel flex was being inhibited by the rubbing on the block, so there is a paper-width gap now lubed with silicone grease. I am not sure that this played out, but it couldn't hurt as it is not a tensioned shroud. I tended to get shots a couple to the left, then a couple to the right by a MOA - so this may be an issue. 
    [/LIST=1]

    Re-assembled and shot some more, a lot more - see target below. I got a 1.25" 10-shot group with JSB .25 25gr pellets. The throat issue got me thinking - maybe the MK1's are too long. So I tried MK2's - still no go 3" 10-shot group. 

    I suspect that the throat engagement on the shirt in the area where the transfer port starts may be the underlying cause. I am theorizing (without much evidence I might add) that the longer 34 grain pellets get started slightly off kilter. Given that I can't get the speed up on the 34gr pellets, there isn't enough spin stabilization, plus there isn't enough skirt to fully stabilize them. Anyway - that's a very, very rough theory. I don't have a lathe, so really can't do justice to fixing this issue. 

    I put the Red Wolf up against my Impact 30 and 25 to see how it fared in bench rest in absolute calm conditions:
    • Impact 25: 233 4x - optimally tuned
    • Impact 30: 236 5x (not tuned yet after the power plenum install) May have had a slight advantage due to the larger pellet size, but there were a few breezes. Impact POI do wander through the shot count.
    • Red Wolf 25 (25 gr): 232 3x (after dark)

    Anyway that was not too bad for the RW, given that the 25gr pellets were an open, old tin that I had lying around. Fresh pellets, it might have fared better. I did try Benjamin and H&N pellets, but they were also very long and did not fare well. 

    The problem remains is the Red Wolf HP Mk1 can not shoot the JSB King Heavies with enough speed - that and the fact I bought 12 tins of the Mk1 Heavies in anticipation of this rifle's arrival... I want to shoot the heavies to help in windier conditions, given their much better BC.

    So, I am pondering my next move - fix the throat area myself, warranty claim with AoA, .22 cal swap out maybe with Ken Hicks tune, or just return it.

    Thanks again for listening and offering advice. 

    Dan

    1597286679_5578111255f34a917da9226.45941187.JPG




    1597286688_14729216515f34a92027f061.92547889.JPG


 
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I've been reading this thread with interest. I dont want to high jack this thread but it seems like there is a good focus of RedWolf expertise here and I want to try to tap into it. I have a .177 RW with Gen 1 board and regular power. I bought the rifle new in May of this year and love it, putting in well over 15K shots through it. When I got the RW I used my chronographs and the rifle was spot on with the specs provided from the factory evaluation and a 2nd evaluation from Baker airguns. I was happy and put the chronograph away.

With a 10.3 grain AA pellet and a cleaned barrel it shot the following:

High 904fps

Med 827fps

Low 721fps



After 3-4 weeks I pulled out the chrony again and the rifle has lost some power. Testing every couple of weeks it seems that this loss in power is not due to temperature, pressure in air tank, pellet batches, etc., as the velocity remains the same. Also, I have changed the breech o-ring, the 2 o-rings that flank the transfer port, and the index pin o-ring (changing all at least 2 times just in case). The loss in velocity is small 3.5% - 4.5%, the rifle shoots straight with the SS tray, but I'm just curious as to why there is this loss of power. A respected forum member suggested I purchase the programmer and just adjust the power up and I may do that but it seems excessive. One day I may send the rifle in to have it checked out, but was wondering if anyone here has any thoughts. 

High 870 fps (-34 fps, -3.5%)

Medium 787 fps (-40fps, -4.5%)

Low (cant find string)



Sorry to slightly change the topic, and I'm happy start another thread if necessary.

Thanks, 5thumbs
Click to expand...

If you bought a brand spanking new car and drove it every day to work and play etc then 3 months later it started to be noticibly sluggish while accelerating do you by a power boost chip to compensate or do you take it to the authorized warranty dealer for free fix and check up?

Honestly since the Daystates are electronic and dependant on voltage to keep them going I would guess you might need a new battery due to defect or rechargeable battery memory effect (if still present in modern rechargeable batteries) syndrome or there's a defect in the power converter the thing that shoots the pulse like electronic hammer spring that makes the power that's voltage dependant.

The AIRWOLF required to be plugged into the charger every month regardless of use in order to keep it running at optimal level and I have never experienced any power drop from any of mine.

Try charging your battery nd go chrony right after that. 

If still low power I'd send the action in thats what's a warranty is for.

Too many folks think they're smarter than the dealer---authorized service center.

Don't give them a reason to specifically void a warranty by monkeying around. They are reading this esoecially if it's a HELP ME THREAD. Probably shaking their heads and laughing.
 
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If I bought an EXPENSIVE USED CAR that was POSSIBLY JUST ABOUT ALMOST at the END of the WARRANTY and there was an issue that I noticed that other buddies who drove the same car didn't have I would most definitely have the dealer check it out under warranty rather than to try and spend more money negating the savings from buying a used car in the first place.

If I had that mentality I would always be sure to pay full price for everything brand new because it's stupid throwing money away to chase a problem that's perhaps why the seller sold it in the first place.

I would have made DAMN SURE the SELLER was the FIRST PERSON I contacted then make a post only AFTER no resolution.

Sellers probably ROFL reading this too. He picked a good buyer.
 
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