Realistic slug group size @ 100 yards

[Franklink]

After all the testing for optimal fps, diameter, weights, etc and THE combination if determined........what AVERAGE group sizes are folks getting?

I don't really care to hear about the cherry-picked or the "best of the day" group size. I am however, very interested to hear about the size of 90% of the groups produced by whatever all the testing determined to be THE best-performing combo.

(edit. I realized I better specify that I'm talking about the realm of "small-bore" airguns, lets says .22 and .25 up to 75? fpe) 

 

[mtnGhost]

1" on average.

 

[vmaxpro]

If you can hold moa or better at 100 yards through a variety of temps you did extremely well.

 

[Centercut]

I can shoot 220 to 225 or so on EBR Target Challenge with Red Wolf HP and .217 JSB KO slugs at 990 FPS. Average group size about the 9 ring which is 1.2 inches. Real world results not cherry picked. Average wind conditions here in SoCal so around 5 to 10 mph swirling. In totally calm conditions the RD Monsters are ever so slightly more accurate.

This would be an average group, 8 shots at 100 yards. Yes, have had groups half that size but this is real world average in real world conditions. Right at MOA C2C I would estimate.

 

[zan89]

My group size is 0,8" at 107yards and 0,6" good ones.

 

[Laity]

So using Wildman Slugs , Pro hunter slugs and JSB KO MK2's I am getting 1" or better if I do my bit in .22 at 100 , In .25 its about the same . It seems that my Red Wolf can print smaller groups in .22 than the .25 Impact . Dont get me wrong , both can do SUB MOA if I work hard enough . I have had some spectacular groups with the Red Wolf at 100 if the battery is full and the barrel is playing ball . 



Rog

 

[Jungle_George]

This past year has been rather windy compared to years past, at least around me. It seems like the only time the wind was down was when I had to work. That said, if I am getting 1.5 MOA then I am relatively happy. During those golden times when the wind is down or at least steady, then significantly better is achievable. If you are out hunting then it will be very hard to cherry pick calm days. If I remember correctly, a golf ball is 1 5/8 inches, so 1.5 MOA means that you are consistently hitting a golf ball at 100 yards. That should be good for most purposes except competition shooting.

 

[JungleShooter]

Yes, I'd love to see more contributions — not just from the cracks (those posting above clearly are the cracks around here! ).



The OP was asking for REALISTIC — so let's be realistic / honest!



Last Saturday I was going to test slugs with new diameters.

I had to share my 100 yard shooting lane with a cow that was not just exceptionally curious, but also exceptionally slobbery.

My shooting bag and table got a taste of her — and after that I was in a hurry to run back and forth from the car to get the rest of the gear.



Well, while hurrying to climb over the fence of the cow corral for the x-th time, I stumbled over my own feet, and fell from the fence head first in the dirt.

Oouuuuch! I must have aged by like 30 years, still feeling it...!



Which proves just again that shooting is dangerous! 



So, after the incident I decided to call it a day — after wasting perfectly good 4 hours in prep, driving and setup — and not one shot fired. What a great hobby we have! (Just not that Saturday.)



All that to say, I don't have any better groups YET, than those below. Clearly not the diameter that my LW barrel likes.

But I will try again. Maybe I'll take a portable electric fence with me. Or shoot the cow first, and then my paper targets at 100 yards.





Matthias



5.4" 10-shot group | NSA 17.5gr, 5.52mm | 100y | Skyhawk with LW barrel

4.8" 10-shot group | NSA 20.2gr, 5.53mm | 100y | Skyhawk with LW barrel

 

[steve123]

I enjoy the way you present things in the way you write!

Ouch because you fell, and ouch because of the groups! Darn cows!

Keep working at it, that seems to be the norm with slugs until you find the right combo for the rifle??!!

 

[Kevin23]

I've only ever shot 3 groups at 100 yds, I dont classify my gun as a 100yd gun so just did it for fun. 2.0-2.2" was the size. Umarex gauntlet .22 with 17.5gr nsa .2165

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

There's actually four different groups here from the other night shooting at 235 yards, until the deer shut down my longer range silhouette target. All are sub moa from an AAA .357 Slayer, if I do my part. Because the thing is unregulated, I have to adjust on the fifth and sixth shot to keep it tight at that range. If I slip on what I should be doing to hit the same spot then it does show up at these distances.

All with a little bit of practice, knowing what to expect from the shot string, a good scope, and also fine tuning the pressures to the projectile...

 

[Drumsnguns]

I haven't shot enough targets to really contribute much here but .25/ 33.5 gn NSA's are looking promising. So far sub MOA at 100+ yards but I could have gotten lucky. I have recently discovered that maxing out the HSTA gives me much better results with slugs than trying to match it to the reg. They were shooting terrible with the latter tune. Don't ask me why buy I'm glad to have one less parameter to deal with. Now it's just Reg. pressure and valve and power wheel. Also I got a Superior Heavy liner so still need more data before I can really start shouting the odds. So I'll come back when I've shot enough to get a meaningful average. I won't post pictures but will take an average to avoid cherry picking.

As a caveat, my impact can be very frustrating, shooting great at setting X one day and totally off the next.

 

[JungleShooter]

As a caveat, my impact can be very frustrating, shooting great at setting X one day and totally off the next.

Wow, I'm sorry, Drumsnguns!

That's got to be frustrating!



What you describe is the reason why I have gotten almost completely out of springers and went full into PCPs.....



Matthias 

 

[WGSmithII]

I tried many different slugs in my .25 cal FX Impact, at different muzzle velocities, in both my STX 700mm pellet barrel and my STX 700mm Slug-A barrel. I shoot a minimum of 5-shot groups. Best groups until recently were 1.5 to 2” at 100 yards, but average of all groups was about 2”. This was using NSA slugs of various weights, FX Hybrids, H&N Grizzlies, and Air Velocity Sport (AVS) slugs at the 0.2503 diameter. None of them could give an average group better than about 2” at 100 yards no matter what muzzle velocity I tried.

Following an e-mail exchange with Stephen Bianchi at AVS about the less-aggressive nature of FX smooth-twist barrel rifling, and taking some measurements... I found that the skirts on JSB Pellets (that shoot great in my rifle) are running about .258+ in diameter, whereas most of the slugs I had tried to date had a diameter of exactly at, or slightly less than .250.

So I decided to try a slightly larger slug. AVS now offers .25 cal slugs in .2503, .2513, and .254 diameter. I knew the .2503’s were not sub-MOA in my gun/barrel combination, so I next tried the .254 dia slugs in several different weights, with several different bases; he offers hollow-point slugs with a flat base, cup base, dish base, or hollow base (like the FX Hybrids). After a lot of testing at the range, I found the “magic” slug for my gun: 32 gn slugs with a dish base. Don’t ask me why, but the same weight slug in hollow, flat & cup-base variations did not shoot as well. But the 32gn dish base... Well below is a 5-shot group at 100 yards, FX Impact X, Power Plenum, 95 bar on the regulator, 700mm Slug-A barrel, no shroud, barrel-band/support attached at the end of the bottle, Huggett Magna moderator attached, muzzle velocity of 850 fps:

Can’t yet say that this is the ‘typical’ or ‘average’ 100-yard group, but it was shot at the end of the shooting session, on an overcast day, with no wind, all 5-shots in succession. Whether it turns out to be my “typical” 5-shot group at 100 yards remains to be seen, but it was by far the BEST 100-yard 5-shot group I’ve ever gotten from ANY of the slugs I’ve tried.

My lesson learned, and has been echoed by Ted Bier in several of his Youtube videos, is that you have to test everything in your particular rifle, and just keep manipulating the variables until you find the right combination for the shooting you intend to do... Someone else’s results will not directly translate to your set-up, because your barrel, valving, hammer spring, trigger, etc. are all different. But I will say that I will definitely be choosing slugs that are slightly larger than the bore diameter for testing from now on in my STX barrels... They just seem to work better overall at distance.

 

[TrinityMaker]

I agree with the aforementioned post about AVS Slugs. Stephen is a risk taker and an innovator. I have a highly modified AF Condor with a custom 24" barrel with a 1:15 twist (.25 caliber). My rifle LOVES the 38gr cup base in .254 caliber. Sub MOA groups at 100 yards. But it hates the same weight slug in dish, hollow, or flat base. I've run through the gauntlet on slugs. It takes a lot of time and research to find the slug your barrel likes. You need to get a big sample pack of slugs, and shoot some targets at 40 or 50 yards. Just pay attention to group sizes. If you find one of the slugs groups tightly, then gravitate to that slug, and start tuning your rifle around it. You can't tune a slug to the gun. You have to tune the gun to a slug. You barrel will either like the slug or it won't. 

But Stephen is the ONLY person I know who sells optional slug sizes outside of the "norm". Most manufacturers sell .25 slugs in .249 or .250. Well, the grooves on most rifles are .254. So that leaves a .002" concentric gap around the entire circumference of the slug. And high velocity air can escape around that and cause stability issues right off the bat. But Stephens slugs concentrically seal in the barrel because of the slightly larger circumference. No wasted air, and no stability issues. He's also getting ready to start manufacturing slugs in .2213 since the LW .22 barrels have a groove diameter of .221. AVSslugs.com