RAW REPORT

regulators and pressure warning.?



guys if you take the air bottle completely off the gun will there still be pressure in the gun?

do the botton blanking screw need to be air bleeded out even after there is no bottle attached to the gun?

I need to take out the regulator to adjust but need to know what this entail pressure wise...

im sure someone here knows about this and they could help.. thanks guys
 
Hey guys I need some advise. I just got a used HMX .25 This is an older one I think, the serial number is under 500. I adjusted the HST all the way in and am getting 840ish with 25.4 gn ammo. I want at least that with the 34 gn. adjust the reg, new reg? shim the hammer spring? on that thought there was only a turn and a quarter left when I maxed it out getting me another 30fps, So the shim don't seem viable. Also getting some blow back. I removed the barrel to see if an Oring was damaged or missing and don't see where one would go. I read where you can loosen that teeny tiny grub screw on the probe and adjust it inward. The pics with that showed there were thread on the adjusted tip. Also can someone get me the contact info for a RAW tuner in Arizona? I prefer to not ship this any further than I need to.



Thanks in advance

Dennis
 
Dear Friends ,

I leaned that A Zasanday puts O ring sealing seystem in breach of many Theoben Rapid guns.

I am always a fan of breach sealing by means of O ring. If this system is designed with due care, it provides 100% sealing without any efforts to close the side levers or bolt actions.

I am only aware of Theoben Rapid and RAW guns that use matel to matel sealing for breach end.

I developed an indexable TP and this time with a grove for O ring inside the bore of TP.

Redesigned the probe also. It's not taper now rather it has a slight edge that sits on the face of the breach end.

Now I have kept very low pressure on the cocking cam of the gun.

Now the side liver closes as easily as of FX Royale series guns. Still my HM1000X is sealing perfectly rather even better than before and is butter smooth.

Some pics are here for your interest.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur 
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Very interesting and noce job Umair! Thanks for sharing the information with us!

What made you decide to do that modification? Aside from breech closing effort, what other differences have you noticed with the seal in place?

Sean

Dear Sean,

In fact I have repaired a few Theoben Rapid guns in the past and inspected well the material used in the cocking bolt and the side plate where the cocking bolt is locked. I found that both the materials were very high quality and highly resistant to wear and tear even in the extreme use.

Still I found one such Rapid that used to give the blow from the breach at the time when shot goes off.

I had to put a lot of effort to resurface the tapered area of probe as well as probe seating cavity in the breach.

Still I had to adjust the probe a bit hard to lock any escaping air.

Since then I had planned that if nothing worked, I would modify the Rapid and install O ring inside the barrel.

I never did it to that Rapid. But when my RAW came I noticed that it had the same sealing mechanism but it also had a cam on the function of cocking lever that gives a slight sound of click while closing under pressure. 

Cam is such a thing that may wear and tear with the passage of time.

Further I did not like the feeling of a bit hard closing effort of cocking lever since I was used to fx guns in the past.

I have worked on Cricket, HW100 and many more brands but almost all used O ring for secure air sealing.

Now the benefit that I get by installing the O ring system is that the effort of closing the cocking lever is almost 5% as compared to when it was in original set up. 

This highly reduced closing effort and inevitably translates into 95% less wear and tear in the cam of the cocking system. 

I am witness that such O ring system if installed with correct tolerances does not affect accuracy at all and seals perfectly. Also in a good developed O ring system the O ring lasts at least a couple of thousand shots without any problem. Replacement of O ring is very easy.

So the gun became less prone to wear and tear and more consistent in fps and more convenient in use.

I just shot a 5 shot group at 114 yards with this system installed with jsb 18.13 grain at 950fps and the group size is 1". I didn't use bench rest for this group rather just from the roof of my car.

Best regards, 

Umair Bhaur 


 
Dear Friends, 

There is a good news.

I have communicated with HUMA.

They are in the process of developing regulators for RAW guns.

These regulators are expected to be more efficient than OEM regulators.

Though RAW regulators are very good but if I can get better, it's great.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur


Simply replacing the OEM RAW Spools reg seat with PEEK replaceing the Acetal seat is a HUGE improvement .... Interesting to see what HuMa comes up with ?
 








Here is some more work. I not only converted my .22 HM1000X but also .25 60ftlb into O ring breach system.

Both works butter smooth with perfect sealing. 

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As you see that for my 50 ftlb .22, I made a capsule shaped TP hole.

Also put O rings on outer dia of 60 ftlb .25 original barrel. 

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This is 10 shots group of today .22 25 grain redesigned pellets at 935fps in open area and 16km wind at 60 yards. 

Later an other group of which I didn't take the pic was not more than quarter inch at 60 yards with .22 25 grain redesigned pellets. 

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Regards, 

Umair Bhaur 
 
Great job Umair. I really like your thinking. If you have a spare vintage BSA barrel let me know
1f601.svg
. I’ll worry with shipping you just need to let it come my way.

I would love to arrange one for you but it's not available in my country. Some people in UK have a few of these.

These are sold at premium price as Dutch people love these barrels in their 100 meter indoor competition. 

Regards 
 
Hey folks.

I am new kid on the block here but not new to guns.

I have been an airgunners for many years but have had a "break" from the airgun-scene for some 8-9 years. 



I have decided again to get into airguns and have made up my mind get buy a RAW. Daystate are nice, FX are nice and so many other, but I want the RAW.

I have watch YouTube and read pages up and down here and other places to get as much intell as possible in regards to RAW. I do however have some issues.



I have a great diificulty in seeing why some one can make aftermarked products to make improvements on an already highend airgun. That goes from O-rings to silencer. If I buy a new gun from Holland & Holland I don't send lt to a bubbagunsmith for improvements...Do I?.

I will wait to a new gen of RAW comes out. I have read here Huma regulator might be one of the things. Other features could be a real silencer, quick detachable, with sub 70 db. Adjustable regulator, quick detachable barrel and so on. Maybe now when they have joint in with TexasAirforce airguns something new will happen. I want the best and not a gun where some after marked products must be apllied for improvements. Now...hurl the stones .. Lol 


 
Hey folks.

I am new kid on the block here but not new to guns.

I have been an airgunners for many years but have had a "break" from the airgun-scene for some 8-9 years. 



I have decided again to get into airguns and have made up my mind get buy a RAW. Daystate are nice, FX are nice and so many other, but I want the RAW.

I have watch YouTube and read pages up and down here and other places to get as much intell as possible in regards to RAW. I do however have some issues.



I have a great diificulty in seeing why some one can make aftermarked products to make improvements on an already highend airgun. That goes from O-rings to silencer. If I buy a new gun from Holland & Holland I don't send lt to a bubbagunsmith for improvements...Do I?.

I will wait to a new gen of RAW comes out. I have read here Huma regulator might be one of the things. Other features could be a real silencer, quick detachable, with sub 70 db. Adjustable regulator, quick detachable barrel and so on. Maybe now when they have joint in with TexasAirforce airguns something new will happen. I want the best and not a gun where some after marked products must be apllied for improvements. Now...hurl the stones .. Lol 

I

There is nothing to stay away except that Martin has sold RAW to Airforce as I have read.

The best thing was that a user could call Martin and discuss about one's gun.

As far as after market improvements are concerned, There is always room for improvement.

If manufacturer will do that all, the price of the product will increase further.

Most of the users are more than happy with their stock RAW guns.

To me these are the best built guns, based on Theoben Rapid action and with some improvements. 

There is further room to improve efficiency in these guns.

I don't like multi caliber guns. My both guns of different calibers should be always ready to hit the target without involving into changing the barrel and re zeroing.

Regards,

Umair Bhaur 
 
Hey folks.

I am new kid on the block here but not new to guns.

I have been an airgunners for many years but have had a "break" from the airgun-scene for some 8-9 years. 



I have decided again to get into airguns and have made up my mind get buy a RAW. Daystate are nice, FX are nice and so many other, but I want the RAW.

I have watch YouTube and read pages up and down here and other places to get as much intell as possible in regards to RAW. I do however have some issues.



I have a great diificulty in seeing why some one can make aftermarked products to make improvements on an already highend airgun. That goes from O-rings to silencer. If I buy a new gun from Holland & Holland I don't send lt to a bubbagunsmith for improvements...Do I?.

I will wait to a new gen of RAW comes out. I have read here Huma regulator might be one of the things. Other features could be a real silencer, quick detachable, with sub 70 db. Adjustable regulator, quick detachable barrel and so on. Maybe now when they have joint in with TexasAirforce airguns something new will happen. I want the best and not a gun where some after marked products must be apllied for improvements. Now...hurl the stones .. Lol 

I

First-welcome! You have made a great choice in going with a RAW-a product that is phenomenal straight from the factory-with no modifications needed.

Let me speak to your concerns here (at the risk of offending people on this thread-which I do not intend to do). I can understand your confusion between seeing the overall excellent experiences shared related to the RAW product line-which are ALL shot with products delivered straight from the factory (with the exception of Umair's postings, but he's been clear that he's modified his gun) and then seeing other posts about modifying the RAW. Hopefully I can clear up some of what you're seeing in this excellent thread.

I will speak to your items, one by one:

O-rings: no issues noted by anyone that I know of. If you are referring to Umair's addition of the O-ring, I suspect that was related to him adding it to the probe as he encountered a problem with his own work when adding a thimble to the BSA .22 barrel he fitted to one of his rifles. He was experiencing louder than expected noise and (I believe) he traced back a loss of air to somewhere near the breach of his modified gun. As a way to address it, he put seals on everything in the area. While he was at it, he decided to try to improve the way the probe seals to the breach. Throughout this thread, Umair is the only one who has decided that the factory RAW configuration 'needs help' or 'could be improved'. The factory design, as delivered by Martin at RAW, works flawlessly and (in my opinion) is NOT deficient in design.

Regulator: I have ZERO idea why Huma would even consider offering something for the RAW actions-I am totally not at all interested in this offering. My extreme spreads while on the regulator regularly are in the 7-9 fps range for my shot strings-MUCH better than most of the FX results I see that include Huma regulators so I see them as having nothing to offer here for RAW. Umair may not like that answer, but I think the majority of RAW owners stand with me on that sentiment. (Sorry Umair...)

Moderator: Yes, I think Umair, Craig, and others have a legitimate desire in trying to quiet down the RAW's further compared to the factory moderator. DonnyFL and Ken (Spaweapons) have been working on coming up with a solution to make the report more muted. Initial feedback from Craig is that they have a super efficient solution that should resolve the situation-at the expense of added length. This is one area of 'legitimate' critique that's fair when leveled against the RAW lineup. I personally live in an area with no neighbors, so I am not at all bothered by the report of the muzzle from my .25 cal and .30 cal HM1000x. Everyone's situation (neighbors) is different though, so it's a personal thing...

Adjustable Regulator: I don't think this will be coming any time soon from either Martin or AF-nor do I think it's needed. The results are optimized via thorough testing by Martin to give the absolute best accuracy results. Once found, the shots / fill are what they are-and they are more than adequate as delivered in my opinion (especially considering we're talking in the 35-40 shots/fill range with in .30 cal power levels). FX likes to make the option available for users to tinker with the regulator settings-good for them. RAW delivers a product optimized to shoot lights out-don't screw with it! If you want more than one caliber up or down from what you have, then buy a second (or third) rifle-that's my take.

Quick change barrels: Already present. I have written the guide and regularly do the swap in under 5 minutes-start to finish. Regarding sighting in: I have a 3 MIL shift (left to right) and a 0.5 MIL (up to down) shift when swapping between calibers-repeatably, every single time without exception. It's completely predictable and accounted for when I swap calibers. No future work could make this any easier...

Detachable Moderator: This will not happen, if Martin has any say in it moving forward-period. I have talked to him about it and it's an issue of his interpretation of being on the 'correct side of current legal interpretations in the US'. You can order a barrel from him without a moderator and seek your own solution if you please-but his will NOT be removable.

I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a RAW at all nor would I recommend waiting to see what AF comes out with. AF and Martin were pretty clear at last year's Shot show what they would focus on next: bringing back the 'Theoben' brand as a more cost effective, mass produced lineup. It wouldn't surprise me to see an update announced during this year's Shot Show (I have no insider information-I'm speculating).

Trigger: In reading through the thread, you've seen posts made by me wishing the trigger was a little 'better'. I've really been one of the few that have made this request. It really comes from my days of shooting 10m air rifles with phenomenal triggers. I liken my 'wishes' about the same as 'wishing' I had one of Umair's excellent .22 cal BSA barrels to install: there's absolutely nothing wrong with the LW Polygon offering, but the 'Legend' would just take the gun up one further step into is 'legend-hood' (now that's actually debatable with the .22 LW polygon barrel vs. the BSA barrel). In a similar sense: the only thing I wish I could do is directly install a top of the line 10m trigger into my RAW action (an Anschutz or FWB trigger, or a Steyr-those would be my choices). My RAW's trigger is now setup very, very well and I rarely think about it any more. Having said that: If I could throw $500 - $800 at someone and they would convert my gun for me-I'd take them up in a heartbeat (the Anschutz 4k trigger unit alone sells for $525 as a spare part, just FYI). Anyway, the factory trigger is excellent and my posts are simply just dreams...

Regarding Umair's posts: he comes to this thread from a non-US country and has had considerable experience with modifying other airguns over the years-plus he has access and experience as a machinist. As such, he has taken it upon himself to see if he can do different things with the RAW HM1000X that he had as a spare (started off with a .25 cal gun). I don't blame him at all for what he's set out to do: the BSA barrel (in .22 caliber) is no longer in production and has a legendary following (I know this from reading posts by Yrrah (Harry) over the years, along with others...). If I had access to one of those barrels, had as spare .25 cal HM1000x and his machining experience / access I would have done exactly what he's done and posted for the benefit of anyone who want to learn more about the process or gun. I appreciate him sharing his knowledge and experience in this thread-but I also understand how that could convey a sense that the design was somehow 'inadequate' from the factory. This is simply NOT the case. He's merely putting a 'legendary' barrel into a 'legend in the making' platform-something I wish I could do also! I really only disagree with him on the points I clearly noted above (no offense intended Umair!).

BTW: I found Umair's posting of the thimble most educational and interesting to understanding what they look like in person. I would have pursued the same thimble approach in his situation. However, if the gun was coming from Martin directly: it is my understanding that Martin has an 'indexing rig' (based on rumors only) that he uses to find the 'sweet spot' for the barrel and does this for each barrel he builds-straight from the factory. Once the sweet spot is found, the purpose of the thimble has really been served (unless you want to add a barrel in the future and need to find the new barrel's 'sweet spot' for setting it up-then the thimble can be used as Umair has shown above).

Umair: If I've mis-represented anything you've done, said, or intended in this thread-I apologize (feel free to correct me).

With that being said: again, WELCOME! I don't see any point in holding off in pursuing your purchase of a new or used RAW. (On that note, my second one will be showing up in the coming couple weeks...)

I hope that helps you better interpret the comments, photos, and discussion here in this thread?



Sean


 
SMH77,

I agree with what you have said, and I feel that these statements are true with most quality products from any manufacturer. But some folks feel that they have a better ideal and get out the Dremel, files, drills, etc to make the product better, or before even shooting it, send it out to some whiz-bang gunsmith to "tune it up". The manufacturers are giving you the best they can offer and would not risk their reputation to give anything less.

In regard to your desire for an Anschutz or FWB trigger, my TM1000 BR gun's stock RAW trigger breaks at 2 oz. My HM100x 25 is about 5 oz. That's pretty good IMO.

Cheers
 
As mentioned by others the RAW platform is excellent and doesn’t require all the modifications users make to perform. It’s pretty much perfect out of the box. As for the trigger I installed a Rowan trigger blade for better feel and adjustment/fit for myself. Some of us are tinkerers and we cannot just leave good enough alone. Some of it is based on preference others like customization and others think they can put together a better product but RAW doesn’t require it to perform trust me. You won’t be disappointed with the purchase and the reg that comes with it is gun is excellent and cannot see Huma improving it.