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RAW REPORT
- Thread starter Hynzie
- Start date
Guys, I have a scope question that I should probably post it in the optics section-and I will-but want fellow RAW owner’s input directly. I currently am using a Hawke Sidewinder 30 (8-32x56) by default, but have finally gotten around to leaning more about scopes after reading Ryan Cleckner’s book: Long Range Shooting Handbook. After reading the section on optics, I want a scope whose reticle and turrets are both either MOA or MIL. As such, I think i’m going to put my Hawke up for sale and buy one of these scopes:Athlon Optics Argos BTR Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6-24 x 56mm First Focal Side Focus Illuminated Reticle MatteMy question for you: which should I choose between MIL and MOA since the scopes are offered in both options? Which is the least expensive place to buy one of these scopes? Are their any downsides to the scope that should make me hesitate in getting one?
Thanks guys!
Sean
Thanks guys!
Sean
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I’m going to answer this by just asking this question.....Do you prefer the Metric System or the Standard System? If you like working with the Metric go MIL if you like the Standard System go MOA..Myself I prefer the MOA but that’s what I grew up with but I think it will eventually be all Metric someday.
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Adding this......When Mat helped design the Aztec Emerald he stated that they did it in MOA because the bigger selling area would be in America but then added that they did plan on designing it with MIL later on for the European market if it became a seller which I think it has. Or something like that,it’s been awhile since I’ve watched his review on it...
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Adding this......When Mat helped design the Aztec Emerald he stated that they did it in MOA because the bigger selling area would be in America but then added that they did plan on designing it with MIL later on for the European market if it became a seller which I think it has. Or something like that,it’s been awhile since I’ve watched his review on it...
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In terms of shooting: I honestly haven’t developed a preference at this point-but I seem to ‘understand’ MOA a little more intuitively. As an engineer, I generally find the metric system more elegant and easier to use-and prefer it when given the option. Does that mean I will be able to adapt my thinking easily enough to thinking in MIL? Also, the MIL version of the scope seems to have a more technical reticle than the MOA version-and I like that about the MIL option.
Also, the 8-34 option only does parallax down to 15 yards, whereas the 6-24 does it down to 10. I’m thinking the 6-24 is the way to go as i do shoot chipmunks that are less than 10 yards from me. Thoughts on these two options since they are really close in price anyway?
Sean
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I stay out of scope discussions because everyone’s eyes are different,for me it’s red dot I can’t use red dots because I get a flar or cracked type of a dot, as far as what power scope to go with that’s up to each individual person but as far as I’m concerned if I’m not shooting past 100 yards a 4-16x44 or a 4-9 is fine for me as is a straight 10X-44 but long distance out to 1000 yards with my Creedmoor i use a 6.5-24x50 but then again I do have a 6-24x44 on my .25 wildcat so like I said it’s up to you and what your eye(s) like,just like tube size,some like the 1 inch others need a bit more light and go with the 30mm tube, heck some even go with 8-36x50 just to get things as close as possible...
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I would say go with MIL if you know and work with the Metric System,it will just keep things easier for you.
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I got a chance to take my RAW out for a test run. I mounted a SS 10x on it. Since this was going to be a quick shot session I grabbed my Caldwell Field Pod to shoot off of. I shot a total of 12 pellets. It took 3 pellets to zero. Zeroed it at 47 yards. Grouping was tight, but on a more stable platform the RAW will do much better. Then I saw movement out of my left eye. A ground squirrel moved in a pile of tree limbs and other farm trash. The GS was scampering around ignoring me, and the bark of the RAW. I grabbed the range finder and ranged it at a distance of 47 yards. This was my zero, lined up the cross hairs, 33.95 JSB sent, head shot. Waited a few minutes and two GS were looking around and I ranged one at 52 yards. Made a vertical turret adjustment on the SS 10X, 33.95 JSB sent, head shot. A dog came by and the GS started barking warning others there was danger in the area. The GS raised up, and barked in the direction of the dog giving me a clear view of its head. 33.95 JSB sent. In total, 4 GS were taken with head shots. I loaded up and headed home.
I am very happy with this gun. I asked Martin to set the trigger at 1lb, as I am a hunter. I LOVE the positive tracking of the SS scopes. Kicking the can on the SS 3-15x42.
How is the tracking on the SIGHTRON SIII 6-24x50? I like the glass on the SIGHTRONS. These two scopes are at the top of my must have list. The Athlon Helos 6-24x50 is attractive also. I have two of the Athlon Argos BTR scopes. Would really like locking turrets.
Is there any input on the above mentioned optics?
I am very happy with this gun. I asked Martin to set the trigger at 1lb, as I am a hunter. I LOVE the positive tracking of the SS scopes. Kicking the can on the SS 3-15x42.
How is the tracking on the SIGHTRON SIII 6-24x50? I like the glass on the SIGHTRONS. These two scopes are at the top of my must have list. The Athlon Helos 6-24x50 is attractive also. I have two of the Athlon Argos BTR scopes. Would really like locking turrets.
Is there any input on the above mentioned optics?
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Great report and great shooting! That was fun to read for sure. Was that .25 pretty effective and did it seem to hit hard on the game?
After you posted about the Helos, I started looking at that and do like the locking turrets. Is the only difference between the Argos and Helos the 1 extra MIL per revolution and the locking turrets? I am trying to decide if it is worth $212 more for just those two features to me over the Argos (new vs used).
I think I have decided to go MIL and 6-24 because of the ability to focus down to 10 yards / m.
Should I be hesitant at all to consider a used one? If I go that route, I can basically make the change and put some money back in the bank-vs spending more on a new Helos. To me it’s no big deal, but having my wife happy with me after the swap vs upset about spending more right now is a BIG emotional benefit. Hey, I gotta donut the ‘right way’ occasionally (in her mind) to build up good credit with her. Besides, if I decide I need locking turrets, I can easily hang onto the Argos and hand it down to my son/daughter while I get a Helos. It will be much easier to teach them how to work the turrets with a common MIL turret/reticle setup than most of the other ‘mixed’ scopes out there now.
Sean
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Hotbrass,
Sounds like a down right fun time on your first time out. It is almost too easy
Craig
Sounds like a down right fun time on your first time out. It is almost too easy
Craig
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I have two 34X Athlons on my Daystates. Really a good scope for the money, and I will buy more. The glass on them are better than my 25X Hawke Sidewinder. I like lot's of magnification personally. My Raw's have 50X Sightrons because of the high magnification.
I went with MOA on everything just because I'm used to it. 1 inch 100 yards is just easy to remember.
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Yep, we've got lots of both around here-and nearly an infestation of chipmunks also! I shot like 47 chipmunks in 2016 and was afraid I was going to decimate them. I laid off in 2017 and it looked like I hadn't shot a one the year before! Small little targets to be sure. I only shot one rabbit in 2016-I plan to hunt them a bit once I get all dialed in again. I just need to learn how to clean, skin and cook them...
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We have a lot of those pesky chipmunks around here also but anyway squirrels are easy to clean, make a cut on each side of tail,stand on tail and grab the back feet and pull up,rabbits are kinda the same,cut around back legs,hold back legs and pull fur down over the head,cut fur and head off and gut same as squirrel.......I think there are videos on how to do it but it is easy after you have done a few. Then brown in pan add cream of mushroom soup and carrots,potatoes and simmer,add spices if you like....This is one of the ways I do it but there are many recipes out there also.
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Thanks for the great info! Ok, honest question: what parts do you eat on both animals and do they really (honestly) taste any good? I realize taste is subjective, but does it really taste like chicken, or is it fatty, gamey, etc?
Sean
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SMH77 and crgabel, it was fun. My Cricket .25 shoots 25.4 JSB`s at 940fps. The 34gr JSB hits HARD, there is a pronounced hit, louder impact noise, and the squirrels reaction says they are hit harder.
I shoot 5 dairies. The California drought hit the varmints hard. Last years rains helped bring numbers back some. So walking around looking for GS can be a laborious task. I drive my Jeep around and find where the bigger groups are and set up 50 yards away. I take air tank, binos, rangefinder, shooting rest, squirrel call, water or coffee, lots of pellets, shooting bench which has a seat, or the Caldwell and a chair or bucket. I also use a folding hide. If you have not tried a hide, as a varmint hunter you are hidden. I can not see why a varmint hunter would not use tools that make life easier. I arrive at a location and set up the hide. Set up the table and rest, or Caldwell, air, rest. glass, gun and pellets. sit for about 1/2 hr waiting. The GS slowly come above ground. I let 5-6 or more get comfortable then load a magazine and pick them off one by one. Being hidden, having a QUIET gun, and being hidden equals many shots. Pigeons avoid me, when they can.
have taken 100 GS in a morning. Man, we need more rain.
I shoot 5 dairies. The California drought hit the varmints hard. Last years rains helped bring numbers back some. So walking around looking for GS can be a laborious task. I drive my Jeep around and find where the bigger groups are and set up 50 yards away. I take air tank, binos, rangefinder, shooting rest, squirrel call, water or coffee, lots of pellets, shooting bench which has a seat, or the Caldwell and a chair or bucket. I also use a folding hide. If you have not tried a hide, as a varmint hunter you are hidden. I can not see why a varmint hunter would not use tools that make life easier. I arrive at a location and set up the hide. Set up the table and rest, or Caldwell, air, rest. glass, gun and pellets. sit for about 1/2 hr waiting. The GS slowly come above ground. I let 5-6 or more get comfortable then load a magazine and pick them off one by one. Being hidden, having a QUIET gun, and being hidden equals many shots. Pigeons avoid me, when they can.
have taken 100 GS in a morning. Man, we need more rain.
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Those Athlon FFP scopes do look inviting,was reading up on a couple and the 6-24x50 caught my eye for the price.
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Imold, have the 8-34x56 on my Cricket, and the 6-24x50 on a .223. Nice scopes, awesome reticle, good glass. I want locking turrets so my POI does not get moved rubbing against my leg or being taken out or placed in the case. I just think locking turrets are a safety net.
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Gentleman
Dirte mentioned that he has 34X Athlons on his daystates.
My issue with scopes is that fine cross hairs are tough for me to see well. Do you find the fine cross hairs on the Athlons hard to pick up on a target or animal?
I've shot Hi-Power silhouette for many years and have always found a small black dot in the center of the cross hairs is best for me. I now have a Hawke Endurance that is what I like to see in cross hairs but I don't feel the glass is as good as I would like. I also have a Hawke Airmax that the glass seems good but it has thin cross hairs which get lost on some targets and game.
I'm lost and will need some ideas . I don't mind spending $500 to $600 on a scope I've just not had much experience with 30mm air gun scopes.
Any advice is appreciated.
Craig
Dirte mentioned that he has 34X Athlons on his daystates.
My issue with scopes is that fine cross hairs are tough for me to see well. Do you find the fine cross hairs on the Athlons hard to pick up on a target or animal?
I've shot Hi-Power silhouette for many years and have always found a small black dot in the center of the cross hairs is best for me. I now have a Hawke Endurance that is what I like to see in cross hairs but I don't feel the glass is as good as I would like. I also have a Hawke Airmax that the glass seems good but it has thin cross hairs which get lost on some targets and game.
I'm lost and will need some ideas . I don't mind spending $500 to $600 on a scope I've just not had much experience with 30mm air gun scopes.
Any advice is appreciated.
Craig
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Cut the head and feet off then cut it like you would a bird if you were going to fry it in a pan and taste is subjective,I like it myself but then I also use cream of mushroom soup and simmer it most of the time but if you just fri it up in oil it’s a bit gamey. The taste like chicken is just a metaphor or a way of saying it’s not bad...If a person likes duck,goose,deer it’s more then likely they will also like squirrel and rabbit.
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I thought Long and hard about whether to go with the Helos (locking turrets) or go less expensive with the used Argos and save the money. I figured it would be ‘maritally correct’ to get the used scope to make sure I really like the MIL setup, FFP scope, etc. my plan is to learn how to use it, then hand it down to my son (or daughter) and pick up a Helos for me down the road. I would really like the 8-34, but I have too many chipmunks pop up under 10 yards to be stuck at greater than 15 yards only. Man I wish it focused down to 10 yards-if so, I would be all over the 8-34 x 56.
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crgbel, I have no issue seeing the lines in the Athlon optics. My biggest gripe with the 8-34x56 is weight. For me, 24x is enough.
Really looking at the Helos.
Really looking at the Helos.
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