RAW Rapid RAW probe

[bucketboy]

While the RAW probe is really floppy inside the bolt and although does self align it can cause accuracy issues as occasionally it doesn’t engage the pellet correctly wile in the mag, this cause to pellet being damaged as it enters the barrel. Another issue is the probe sometimes drags the pellet backwards causing it to tumble in the mag, this mainly happens when the rifle is pointed upwards and occasionally does it if the bolt is pulled back slowly.

I made what I consider to be a much better solution, theprobe fits more precisely inside the bolt so doesn’t flop about but still has enough wiggle room to allow it to self centre

Top is the original, bottom is better

 

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Bucketboy,
Have you redesigned the inner probe & spring too?
Sounds/looks like you believe the outer probe needs to be a smaller diameter as not to interfere with the magazine?

I'm not sure I fully understand point #2?

Thanks ........... Kirk

 

[mubhaur]

While the RAW probe is really floppy inside the bolt and although does self align it can cause accuracy issues as occasionally it doesn’t engage the pellet correctly wile in the mag, this cause to pellet being damaged as it enters the barrel. Another issue is the probe sometimes drags the pellet backwards causing it to tumble in the mag, this mainly happens when the rifle is pointed upwards and occasionally does it if the bolt is pulled back slowly.

I made what I consider to be a much better solution, theprobe fits more precisely inside the bolt so doesn’t flop about but still has enough wiggle room to allow it to self centre

Top is the original, bottom is better

View attachment 436769

Yes its great.
Somehow I don't like the concept of metal to metal seal at breach end between probe and the barrel.

I redesigned the probe and also made indexable transfer port for my RAW HM1000X.

The redesigned inner pin of probe has tiny O rings on it in order to ensure 100% sealing.

I feel that in RAW while using OEM metal to metal contact system, the breach end of barrel is very sharp. Even a slight misalignment of pellet cause shaving.

I got better results after incorporating O ring sealing system and redesigning the probe accordingly.

It also allowed a bit wider dia for insertion of pellet into the barrel and resultantly pellet enters the barrel safely.

Following is around 8 shots group at around 116 yards .22 18.13 grain jsb at 950fps. The group size is not larger than 3/4" CTC. Just shot from the roof of my car. Not a proper benchrest.

The group is shots from RAW HM1000X .22 with BSA hammer forged barrel.

1= Point of aim
2= Point of impact

Bhaur

 

[Motorhead]

Good work gentlemen !!! ..... And Thought I was neurotic in small details

Can't say I've had issue with the HM style probes as designed being my primary shooter is the TM with there fixed probe design.

 

[mubhaur]

Good work gentlemen !!! ..... And Thought I was neurotic in small details

Can't say I've had issue with the HM style probes as designed being my primary shooter is the TM with there fixed probe design.

TM and BM are perfect probes

 

[bucketboy]

Hey Bucketboy,
Have you redesigned the inner probe & spring too?
Sounds/looks like you believe the outer probe needs to be a smaller diameter as not to interfere with the magazine?

I'm not sure I fully understand point #2?

Thanks ........... Kirk

No the inner probe is the same but I installed an o ring in the back of all my Rapid and RAW to eliminate any blow back. These act as a buffer also and makes the closure of the bolt feel more compliant.

 

[corny]

While the RAW probe is really floppy inside the bolt and although does self align it can cause accuracy issues as occasionally it doesn’t engage the pellet correctly wile in the mag, this cause to pellet being damaged as it enters the barrel. Another issue is the probe sometimes drags the pellet backwards causing it to tumble in the mag, this mainly happens when the rifle is pointed upwards and occasionally does it if the bolt is pulled back slowly.

I made what I consider to be a much better solution, theprobe fits more precisely inside the bolt so doesn’t flop about but still has enough wiggle room to allow it to self centre

Top is the original, bottom is better

View attachment 436769

I have experienced the pellets tumbling in the mag issue with oem mags.

But I think it’s the toerances the mag is built it.
As the AEswede mags I use now never had this issue.

Otherwise I’ve never had an issue with the oem probe.

Can u show the price assembled?

 

[Ranchibi]

While the RAW probe is really floppy inside the bolt and although does self align it can cause accuracy issues as occasionally it doesn’t engage the pellet correctly wile in the mag, this cause to pellet being damaged as it enters the barrel. Another issue is the probe sometimes drags the pellet backwards causing it to tumble in the mag, this mainly happens when the rifle is pointed upwards and occasionally does it if the bolt is pulled back slowly.

I made what I consider to be a much better solution, theprobe fits more precisely inside the bolt so doesn’t flop about but still has enough wiggle room to allow it to self centre

Top is the original, bottom is better

View attachment 436769

Very nice BBoy! Can the probes be made thicker for slugs so no bent probes? I shoot slugs as well as pellets and have not bent a probe but others have had that issue, maybe slugs were way to large in diameter? Just wondering if this was feasible without loading issues.

 

[bucketboy]

Very nice BBoy! Can the probes be made thicker for slugs so no bent probes? I shoot slugs as well as pellets and have not bent a probe but others have had that issue, maybe slugs were way to large in diameter? Just wondering if this was feasible without loading issues.

Yes the probe could be made bigger but it would then restrict air flow. I suspect that the probes are getting bent because slugs are a tighter fit in the barrel and if the tip of the inner probe is not dead centre (due to the floppy design) it is going to bend as it tries to force the slug into the breech. If I were to shoot slugs I would open up the breech of the barrel slightly to reducing loading effort.





Bb

 

[bucketboy]

I have experienced the pellets tumbling in the mag issue with oem mags.

But I think it’s the toerances the mag is built it.
As the AEswede mags I use now never had this issue.

Otherwise I’ve never had an issue with the oem probe.

Can u show the price assembled?

It operates exactly the same as the original, the inner probe retracts when the bolt it pulled back and pushes the pellet past the transfer port when locked forwards

 

[corny]

What does the key/slot do?

 

[Ranchibi]

Yes the probe could be made bigger but it would then restrict air flow. I suspect that the probes are getting bent because slugs are a tighter fit in the barrel and if the tip of the inner probe is not dead centre (due to the floppy design) it is going to bend as it tries to force the slug into the breech. If I were to shoot slugs I would open up the breech of the barrel slightly to reducing loading effort.





Bb

Ok...thank you for the awesome explanation! I saw someone that had a tungsten probe made just for that reason . Opening the breech makes sense, thank you!

 

[bucketboy]

What does the key/slot do?

There are two grubscrews on the side of the bolt, these are to stop the original probe from falling out when bolt is retracted. because the newer probe has a longer base section and moves in and out it still require the grubscrews, the keyway allows free movement for the grubscrew to locate into

Bb

 

[corny]

There are two grubscrews on the side of the bolt, these are to stop the original probe from falling out when bolt is retracted. because the newer probe has a longer base section and moves in and out it still require the grubscrews, the keyway allows free movement for the grubscrew to locate into

Bb

One more question, I was always under the impression that the steel to steel seal required specific taper of the probe. For the seal, and so that it doesn’t jam up.

Did u make any changed to the barrel breach? Being u went to a radius on the pin probe?

 

[bucketboy]

One more question, I was always under the impression that the steel to steel seal required specific taper of the probe. For the seal, and so that it doesn’t jam up.

Did u make any changed to the barrel breach? Being u went to a radius on the pin probe?

Good question, the actual taper angle doesn’t matter that much, if the taper is a perfect fit it will seal at a lower closing pressure but so long as it is within few degrees or so it still will seal without sticking.
A long gradual taper will stick more than a shorter steeper taper, I did 45 degrees on this .177 and it doesn’t blow back on the factory breech.

 

[Motorhead]

Found similar ... I run @ 30* on the barrel then place a small radius on the sealing sleeve. Point of contact making the seal becomes a very narrow band sealing up w/o excessive force required. No sticking noted.