Tuning RAW HM1000x LRT - 25 caliber - Max. Shot Count.

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Guys,

Thinking of buying a RAW HM1000x LRT in .25 caliber. Will install a SSG to minimize hammer bounce. 

Does anyone know how much this improves shot count over the 45/50 shots per fill as seen in most reviews?

I will most likely shoot at velocities between 880 and 925 fps.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Motorhead]

My findings have been ... At Very high power or close too .... in .25 cal the SSG is not very effective and most instances will loose potential power. The .25 "X" guns in .25 cal generally have heavy hammer springs in them and under quite a bit of stem preload. Free flighting hammer will require MORE SPRING Energy resulting in heavier cocking and trigger sear load.

Tho said am a Very big fan of the SSG devise and use them in all my personal PCP's.



Others should chime in ...

 

[SpiralGroove]

Thanks Scott,

I called Utah Air today, to inquire if they have a RED HM1000x LRT in stock ... as I ordered THIS gun last night during an "emotionally trying" moment.

They have them in stock (otherwise I would have cancelled) and it should arrive in the next couple weeks - so will shoot it completely OEM to see how it performs before getting involved in another Fine Mess."

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/raw-hm1000x-lrt-pcp-air-rifle-red-laminate-stock?m=4793

 

[Motorhead]

Love the Rifle / platform in general .... Not a fan of of the HUGE pickle on barrel.

Martin has his ways of setting up these rifles and while it works, other set up configurations exist if your a tinkerer ?

 

[SpiralGroove]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

 

[Hobbyman2007]

Does this mean you’re giving up on the springers? Love the rifle you chose . We haven’t seen a RAW new in Canada for the last couple years . Good thing as I probably would have got one. 

 

[mubhaur]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

I am here friends.

To me the RAW HM1000X is one of the best built PCPs I have used or tuned till today. I am not a professional tuner.

RAW basically carries the old design of Rapid with some modifications for extra power and side lever.

Otherwise the DNA is almost identical.

I have made many modifications to both .22 and .25 calibers.

I get benefit of almost all the modifications including SSG.

My modifications include SSG, Hammer weight change, various transfer ports, indexable barrel, better LDC, O ring based breach, O rings in pellet probe, peek valve, peek regulator seat, external plenum.

These guns will be the last to leave my home.

I might forget a few mods.

but all these things have transformed the already great gun to a greater gun.

One may search for my posts on this forum.

 

[SpiralGroove]

Does this mean you’re giving up on the springers? Love the rifle you chose . We haven’t seen a RAW new in Canada for the last couple years . Good thing as I probably would have got one.

No, while the Weihrauch springer's sit idle at the moment, I plan to start shooting them at 50 yards. Just tickled with the RAW's right now... 

 

[SpiralGroove]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

I am here friends.

To me the RAW HM1000X is one of the best built PCPs I have used or tuned till today. I am not a professional tuner.

RAW basically carries the old design of Rapid with some modifications for extra power and side lever.

Otherwise the DNA is almost identical.

I have made many modifications to both .22 and .25 calibers.

I get benefit of almost all the modifications including SSG.

My modifications include SSG, Hammer weight change, various transfer ports, indexable barrel, better LDC, O ring based breach, O rings in pellet probe, peek valve, peek regulator seat, external plenum.

These guns will be the last to leave my home.

I might forget a few mods.

but all these things have transformed the already great gun to a greater gun.

One may search for my posts on this forum.

Yeah Mubhaur,

I have followed your mods to your .22 and .25 caliber RAW's, and have done many of the same mods on my Camo - RAW HM1000xLRT .22 cal. Just wondering what you have achieved in terms of shot count - comparing the .22 vs. .25 cal?

 

[mubhaur]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

I am here friends.

To me the RAW HM1000X is one of the best built PCPs I have used or tuned till today. I am not a professional tuner.

RAW basically carries the old design of Rapid with some modifications for extra power and side lever.

Otherwise the DNA is almost identical.

I have made many modifications to both .22 and .25 calibers.

I get benefit of almost all the modifications including SSG.

My modifications include SSG, Hammer weight change, various transfer ports, indexable barrel, better LDC, O ring based breach, O rings in pellet probe, peek valve, peek regulator seat, external plenum.

These guns will be the last to leave my home.

I might forget a few mods.

but all these things have transformed the already great gun to a greater gun.

One may search for my posts on this forum.

Yeah Mubhaur,

I have followed your mods to your .22 and .25 caliber RAW's, and have done many of the same mods on my Camo - RAW HM1000xLRT .22 cal. Just wondering what you have achieved in terms of shot count - comparing the .22 vs. .25 cal?

In fact four things increased my shot count up to 20% in aggregate being on previous power levels.

external plenum

high efficiency valve design

use of peek in valve

SSG

The increase in shot count may be a bit more than 20%

 

[SpiralGroove]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

I am here friends.

To me the RAW HM1000X is one of the best built PCPs I have used or tuned till today. I am not a professional tuner.

RAW basically carries the old design of Rapid with some modifications for extra power and side lever.

Otherwise the DNA is almost identical.

I have made many modifications to both .22 and .25 calibers.

I get benefit of almost all the modifications including SSG.

My modifications include SSG, Hammer weight change, various transfer ports, indexable barrel, better LDC, O ring based breach, O rings in pellet probe, peek valve, peek regulator seat, external plenum.

These guns will be the last to leave my home.

I might forget a few mods.

but all these things have transformed the already great gun to a greater gun.

One may search for my posts on this forum.

Yeah Mubhaur,

I have followed your mods to your .22 and .25 caliber RAW's, and have done many of the same mods on my Camo - RAW HM1000xLRT .22 cal. Just wondering what you have achieved in terms of shot count - comparing the .22 vs. .25 cal?

In fact four things increased my shot count up to 20% in aggregate being on previous power levels.

external plenum

high efficiency valve design

use of peek in valve

SSG

The increase in shot count may be a bit more than 20%

Yes Mubhaur,

I also have installed a Peek Valve Poppet, Peek Regulator Seat, SSG (Peek components), Peek Hammer Tip and Doughnut TP restricter. The gun is very quiet and shoots .22 cal. 18.13 grain JSB's at 940/950 fps. I get roughly 150/160 shots per fill using a 120 bar set-point. 

- If I use my other regulator with 140 bar set-point the gun shoots 25.39 grain JSB's at 925 and get roughly 90/100 shots.

My Question:

How many shots do you think I could expect in .25 caliber shooting 25.39 grain JSB's at 925 fps and 140 bar set-point? - The same 90/100 shots? .25 caliber should be more efficient than .22 caliber given the same weight - Right?

Your .25 caliber is likely set for more power - Yes?

Roughly how many shots do you get in .25 caliber, given your velocity and set-point?

Best regards,

Kirk

 

[Airgunmann]

I would think you should be able to get 80 at least I've been thinking about going to peek in my valve also but I installed a huma regulator so I'll leave that and just do the valve should pick up a few more fps and probably be able to turn my reg down a touch to . What kind of es are you.guys getting my best so far is 19 fps for 45 shots hoping to lower that 

 

[mubhaur]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

I am here friends.

To me the RAW HM1000X is one of the best built PCPs I have used or tuned till today. I am not a professional tuner.

RAW basically carries the old design of Rapid with some modifications for extra power and side lever.

Otherwise the DNA is almost identical.

I have made many modifications to both .22 and .25 calibers.

I get benefit of almost all the modifications including SSG.

My modifications include SSG, Hammer weight change, various transfer ports, indexable barrel, better LDC, O ring based breach, O rings in pellet probe, peek valve, peek regulator seat, external plenum.

These guns will be the last to leave my home.

I might forget a few mods.

but all these things have transformed the already great gun to a greater gun.

One may search for my posts on this forum.

Yeah Mubhaur,

I have followed your mods to your .22 and .25 caliber RAW's, and have done many of the same mods on my Camo - RAW HM1000xLRT .22 cal. Just wondering what you have achieved in terms of shot count - comparing the .22 vs. .25 cal?

In fact four things increased my shot count up to 20% in aggregate being on previous power levels.

external plenum

high efficiency valve design

use of peek in valve

SSG

The increase in shot count may be a bit more than 20%

Yes Mubhaur,

I also have installed a Peek Valve Poppet, Peek Regulator Seat, SSG (Peek components), Peek Hammer Tip and Doughnut TP restricter. The gun is very quiet and shoots .22 cal. 18.13 grain JSB's at 940/950 fps. I get roughly 150/160 shots per fill using a 120 bar set-point. 

- If I use my other regulator with 140 bar set-point the gun shoots 25.39 grain JSB's at 925 and get roughly 90/100 shots.

My Question:

How many shots do you think I could expect in .25 caliber shooting 25.39 grain JSB's at 925 fps and 140 bar set-point? - The same 90/100 shots? .25 caliber should be more efficient than .22 caliber given the same weight - Right?

Your .25 caliber is likely set for more power - Yes?

Roughly how many shots do you get in .25 caliber, given your velocity and set-point?

Best regards,

Kirk

I think for high power you should remove the peek hammer tip.

Further the doughnut will help in .22 18 grains but for really high power like 60ftlb in .25 34 grain pellets and .22 25 grain pellets I understand that doughnut is a bit counter productive.

Can you please share the pics of all your modifications ?

I keep my reg at 150 bars now. Since the barrel is 24" at high fps the gun start to waste the air.

900 fps is good for .25 34 grain.

I can achieve 970fps in .25 34 grain and 1000fps .22 25 grain but short count is compromised.

I normally get 65 or a bit more shots at 900fos in .25 with 34 grain.

My extreme spread is 12 fps and 95% shots are in single digit spread.

 

[Motorhead]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

SSG's I'm a huge fan of and they work equally well in the 1000X rifles. Just not at MAX power tunes .... IMO

 

[SpiralGroove]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

SSG's I'm a huge fan of and they work equally well in the 1000X rifles. Just not at MAX power tunes .... IMO

Good Scott,

I shoot targets and am never looking for max power - just medium or most accurate power. 

If I can get close to 100 shots with 25.39 JSB (.25) I'll be very happy. Any where between 880/950 fps is fine - just looking for the most accurate speed. Will dabble with slugs too. My range, shooting sessions only last about 1 to 2 hours, so 100 shots is about all my eyes can take at 100 yards. 1 fill should do it.

 

[mubhaur]

I hope a well modified RAW HM1000X in .25 with 25 grain pellets should give you 100 shots tuned for accuracy purposes.

When I talk about max fps, I just tell the potential but I also run it at that fps where it is accurate.

Power without accuracy is useless.

 

[Airgunmann]

It seems to help some the ssg I'm talking about yes you do need a heavier spring cocking doesn't effect as much because of the side lever makes it easier at lower power I agree you would get more out of the ssg but I saw a gain of a few shots over 5 I'd say and also helps quite it down some IMO it's worth it but motorhead knows his stuff 

 

[SpiralGroove]

Well Scott ... the pickle's gonna go, just want to run it completely OEM for awhile at 100 yards to gather a good baseline. I ordered some 5/8" ID carbon fiber tubing so I don't have to make the replacement LDC so long. However, if the SSG doesn't work well, then she maybe pretty loud. I wish mubhaur would chime in as he has tuned both calibers and would be able to provide good post mod data.

I am here friends.

To me the RAW HM1000X is one of the best built PCPs I have used or tuned till today. I am not a professional tuner.

RAW basically carries the old design of Rapid with some modifications for extra power and side lever.

Otherwise the DNA is almost identical.

I have made many modifications to both .22 and .25 calibers.

I get benefit of almost all the modifications including SSG.

My modifications include SSG, Hammer weight change, various transfer ports, indexable barrel, better LDC, O ring based breach, O rings in pellet probe, peek valve, peek regulator seat, external plenum.

These guns will be the last to leave my home.

I might forget a few mods.

but all these things have transformed the already great gun to a greater gun.

One may search for my posts on this forum.

Yeah Mubhaur,

I have followed your mods to your .22 and .25 caliber RAW's, and have done many of the same mods on my Camo - RAW HM1000xLRT .22 cal. Just wondering what you have achieved in terms of shot count - comparing the .22 vs. .25 cal?

In fact four things increased my shot count up to 20% in aggregate being on previous power levels.

external plenum

high efficiency valve design

use of peek in valve

SSG

The increase in shot count may be a bit more than 20%

Yes Mubhaur,

I also have installed a Peek Valve Poppet, Peek Regulator Seat, SSG (Peek components), Peek Hammer Tip and Doughnut TP restricter. The gun is very quiet and shoots .22 cal. 18.13 grain JSB's at 940/950 fps. I get roughly 150/160 shots per fill using a 120 bar set-point. 

- If I use my other regulator with 140 bar set-point the gun shoots 25.39 grain JSB's at 925 and get roughly 90/100 shots.

My Question:

How many shots do you think I could expect in .25 caliber shooting 25.39 grain JSB's at 925 fps and 140 bar set-point? - The same 90/100 shots? .25 caliber should be more efficient than .22 caliber given the same weight - Right?

Your .25 caliber is likely set for more power - Yes?

Roughly how many shots do you get in .25 caliber, given your velocity and set-point?

Best regards,

Kirk

I think for high power you should remove the peek hammer tip.

Further the doughnut will help in .22 18 grains but for really high power like 60ftlb in .25 34 grain pellets and .22 25 grain pellets I understand that doughnut is a bit counter productive.

Can you please share the pics of all your modifications ?

I keep my reg at 150 bars now. Since the barrel is 24" at high fps the gun start to waste the air.

900 fps is good for .25 34 grain.

I can achieve 970fps in .25 34 grain and 1000fps .22 25 grain but short count is compromised.

I normally get 65 or a bit more shots at 900fos in .25 with 34 grain.

My extreme spread is 12 fps and 95% shots are in single digit spread.

Hey Mubhaur,

Here are some pics of the mods I have done. I usually get lost in time while working on the gun and really never take many pics.

Started with this:https://www.pyramydair.com/product/raw-hm1000x-lrt-air-rifle-camo-laminate?m=4797

Ended with this:

Along the way changed out LDC, butt pad, spring guide assembly for a SSG, hammer tip, valve poppet, regulator seat, TP doughnut and regulator set-point.

 

[Airgunmann]

Nice

 

[Motorhead]

Is not GLOBAL help a wonderful thing ?