RAW HM1000x .25 cal experiences for 100y bench rest

[Solo1]

Cant speak for the raw have a impact 25-22. I gave up on mrds and shoot the 25 with 34 gr pellets. Have shot sub moa and some days can’t even get close! But 34.9 nsa i can usually get 3 or 4 out of 5 moa with swirling winds. As a few have stated 50 is a cake walk compared to 100 especially if windy.

 

[Solo1]

Mrd will drift r or l to a 90 degree 2 mph breeze 1.7 “
The 30 cal 44gr will drift 2.2 right or left to a 90 degree 2 mph breeze at 100. Guys that shoot the 30 usually claim the drift of the heavier projectile is more consistent than lighter projectiles. Yet there are some that win with mrd’s? It really comes down to your ability to read wind at 100 as i said if you can shoot sub moa at 50 its your wind reading that most likely needs work

 

[tommyb]

Mrd will drift r or l to a 90 degree 2 mph breeze 1.7 “
The 30 cal 44gr will drift 2.2 right or left to a 90 degree 2 mph breeze at 100. Guys that shoot the 30 usually claim the drift of the heavier projectile is more consistent than lighter projectiles. Yet there are some that win with mrd’s? It really comes down to your ability to read wind at 100 as i said if you can shoot sub moa at 50 its your wind reading that most likely needs work

Ok, thanks. Clear as mud, I know.

At the end of the day, I need to try different calibers and pellets. Wind reading is always the biggest variable

 

[Solo1]

Ok, thanks. Clear as mud, I know.

At the end of the day, I need to try different calibers and pellets. Wind reading is always the biggest variable

Clear as mud? You don’t understand the difference between 1.7” and 2.2”? Good lord wake up and smell the coffee! The first pic is the 30 cal 2 nd is the 22 red lines to the right of reticle are 2-5-10 mph wind 90* of pellet path if you don’t understand now you should go back to school.

 

[tommyb]

I was shocked that the .30 cal 44g was worse than the .22 MRD in your example. Not what I expected for a much heavier pellet at 100 yards.

And, thanks for your kind words.

 

[steve123]

Tommy, for 100Y, thank goodness you have your 22rf's, right?!

I get disgusted shooting my pcp's at 100Y using pellets on EBR practice targets when the wind is kicking up. Having shot all calibers except .35 using pellets at that distance when the wind gets squirrely it becomes a HUGE guessing game I personally get frustrated with.

Even if the wind is low I still get those flyers in the 7 ring and if its windy I don't even bother trying anymore.

sometimes clear out of the scoring rings. This happened in 25 and 30 cal too and I think its just how the pellet "thing" is??? I can literally put a couple sub 1" groups down and the next one can be 2.75" which I think is ridiculous??!!

Also apparently there is a barrel cleaning ratio involved and then there's the "If" one gets a "GOOD" batch of pellets aspect. Reaching the point of "It's definitely getting a bit silly to me" by this point.

That's why I switched over to slugs or rimfires for longer distances. The rimfires are expensive to shoot these days and slugs aren't quite up to 22rf yet, however approaching them day by day it seems, but it is what it is right now.

I know its been hashed over add nauseam but the EBR target was designed for 75Y and AOA probably ordered 100,000 of these so this became the standard type of target. Also shooting at 100Y for whatever reason became a "Ohh- Ahh" thing using pellets. So its no wonder people get frustrated, right?
Even if the rings were made more appropriately sized for 100Y we'd still get those flyers unless we cleaned frequently, had a good batch of pellets, and it was calm out, had some good luck, so even a 250 would be VERY hard to do using pellets. But as an example a 245 feels better than a 225, and a 225 is hard to do on the current target.

I see the differences as far as stats of BC of pellets but I can't tell a difference when shooting 22, 25, and 30 cal on paper when using pellets at 100Y. I've had flyers with all of them and the wind conditions make a huge difference keeping in the 8 ring.

Here's my best targets shot with 22 cal MRD's at 100Y in low winds but normally my scores are in the 210's to 220's in the 5-8 mph winds. I'm out of this batch of pellets unfortunately.
I used a 35 cal plug and might be off 1 point here and there??

 

[steve123]

I've only shot 100Y using slugs like 4 times on these EBR targets and this one I really fought for because it went from 2-3 mph to 7-8 mph before I finished. It was a weird wind day?? It was my best one and if I were using pellets in these same conditions I might not have gotten more than 200?? Big difference in wind drift!

 

[tommyb]

I've only shot 100Y using slugs like 4 times on these EBR targets and this one I really fought for because it went from 2-3 mph to 7-8 mph before I finished. It was a weird wind day?? It was my best one and if I were using pellets in these same conditions I might not have gotten more than 200?? Big difference in wind drift!
View attachment 337530

Hey Steve

You have some pretty good 100 yard EBR cards here! I especially like the last one with slugs. What rifle/slug combination did you use for that one? That is a very nice card.

My RAW .22 HP Poly barrel does not shoot slugs well, but if there is a good RAW .25 or .30 cal barrel that shoots slugs at 100y, I would be interested.

Had some good laughs reading your two posts, and can relate to every frustration shooting pellets at 100y.

Tom

Re. Rimfires - yep, both of my Anschutz.22 LRs do well at 100y, even with some wind. Ammo is expensive and CenerX is out of stock all the time. However, much more rewarding vs. shooting pellets, but oddly, I like both platforms. I guess the new Panthera will have a lot of eyes watching this year at RMAC and EBR.

 

[steve123]

It was my SLUGSURELY Thomas HPX.

 

[tommyb]

Ha ha…I had forgotten you had one of these. .22 cal, what grain slug? Assuming 38 or 40g.

In any case, nice tight scoring groups Steve.

 

[Heavyopp]

My Raw in .22 with MRD’s is extremely frustrating at 100 yards.

Tried 21 grn HN pellets this past week. Couldn’t get them slower than the upper 900’s with the regulator where it is. They where no better than the mrd at those speeds. Mrd’s run 930 right now.

Also tried some fx hybrids. all I had with me. They where terrible. 950 fps

Maybe one of these new up and coming pellets manufactures will make a heavy .22 grn pellet that competes with the mrd.

 

[steve123]

Ha ha…I had forgotten you had one of these. .22 cal, what grain slug? Assuming 38 or 40g.

In any case, nice tight scoring groups Steve.

It's the 42gr slugs that I swage using 99% pure lead wire. These have a .142 G1 BC and were at the time I shot the target in the previous post going around 740 fps, however currently they are going 835 fps because Mike N put in a heavier spring and hammer.

There's one slug sitting on the press on top of the push out tool and those are lead bleed offs and slugs that I dropped in the plastic tray that I will use for casting cores. Also present is the swaging die.

 

[tommyb]

Tommy, for 100Y, thank goodness you have your 22rf's, right?!

I get disgusted shooting my pcp's at 100Y using pellets on EBR practice targets when the wind is kicking up. Having shot all calibers except .35 using pellets at that distance when the wind gets squirrely it becomes a HUGE guessing game I personally get frustrated with.

Even if the wind is low I still get those flyers in the 7 ring and if its windy I don't even bother trying anymore. View attachment 337520sometimes clear out of the scoring rings. This happened in 25 and 30 cal too and I think its just how the pellet "thing" is??? I can literally put a couple sub 1" groups down and the next one can be 2.75" which I think is ridiculous??!!

Also apparently there is a barrel cleaning ratio involved and then there's the "If" one gets a "GOOD" batch of pellets aspect. Reaching the point of "It's definitely getting a bit silly to me" by this point.

That's why I switched over to slugs or rimfires for longer distances. The rimfires are expensive to shoot these days and slugs aren't quite up to 22rf yet, however approaching them day by day it seems, but it is what it is right now.

I know its been hashed over add nauseam but the EBR target was designed for 75Y and AOA probably ordered 100,000 of these so this became the standard type of target. Also shooting at 100Y for whatever reason became a "Ohh- Ahh" thing using pellets. So its no wonder people get frustrated, right?
Even if the rings were made more appropriately sized for 100Y we'd still get those flyers unless we cleaned frequently, had a good batch of pellets, and it was calm out, had some good luck, so even a 250 would be VERY hard to do using pellets. But as an example a 245 feels better than a 225, and a 225 is hard to do on the current target.

I see the differences as far as stats of BC of pellets but I can't tell a difference when shooting 22, 25, and 30 cal on paper when using pellets at 100Y. I've had flyers with all of them and the wind conditions make a huge difference keeping in the 8 ring.

Here's my best targets shot with 22 cal MRD's at 100Y in low winds but normally my scores are in the 210's to 220's in the 5-8 mph winds. I'm out of this batch of pellets unfortunately.
I used a 35 cal plug and might be off 1 point here and there??
View attachment 337522View attachment 337523

View attachment 337516

Hi Steve

I reread this post and did not realize that the EBR targets were originally used for 75 yard bench rest. I know I have read this before, but glad to have your reminder. Now I can rationalize my crappy scores at 100 yards.

Have a new .30 Paradigm coming from AoA next week. Barrel is supposed to shoot pellets and slugs pretty well, so I will give this a try once I break it in.

I’m with you on using pellets at 100 yards, very difficult and challenging. I really have not shot many slugs at 100 yards, so this will be a new adventure for me.

Your Thomas HPX card was excellent with your 42g slugs.

Tom

 

[tommyb]

My Raw in .22 with MRD’s is extremely frustrating at 100 yards.

Tried 21 grn HN pellets this past week. Couldn’t get them slower than the upper 900’s with the regulator where it is. They where no better than the mrd at those speeds. Mrd’s run 930 right now.

Also tried some fx hybrids. all I had with me. They where terrible. 950 fps

Maybe one of these new up and coming pellets manufactures will make a heavy .22 grn pellet that competes with the mrd.

As I was re-reading your post ( back from March 2023), I recall seeing Michael’s recent JSB announcement thread indicating that they are announcing three new pellets. A deep cavity and a shallow cavity .22 25.39 redesign and a brand new .22 cal 28g Grand pellet. I believe they become available after 2024 Shot Show.

I will be curious to test the 28g in the RAW HM1000x to see if accuracy is any better at 100y. I may have to play with HST a bit to adjust for the heavier 28g pellet.

We’ll see, but as Steve123 said, shooting pellets vs. slugs at 100y with any wind is frustrating.

 

[mubhaur]

Fair points Kirk.

It’s not necessarily group size I was focused on here. I am trying to see how the RAW .25 or .30 cal rifles ‘score’ with 100y Benchrest EBR ( or similar ) targets.

Agree, it is rare that I can shoot a 1” MOA group at 100y, but I lost confidence in the .22 cal JSB or FX Branded 25.39 pellets and quality, at 100 yards. They do shoot pretty well at 50y, but there are so many unexplained fliers at 100 yards. I normally can tell when it’s wind vs. me, but that is also a slippery slope because there are times I’m not sure.

I am thinking ( hoping really ) that a Martin tuned .25 cal will help me achieve better scores with either/both 33g MK1/MK2 pellets. It’s worth a try.

I would like to share one important point here.

In fact MRD .22 is a longer pellet as compared to 18.13 grain.

The nature of design of MRD is a combination of pellet and slug.

When MRD flys out of the barrel, it needs more RPM as compared to 18.13 or 34 grain in .25 for 100 yards accuracy.

The Poly barrel provides the required RPM to MRD only upto 50 yards or a bit more at yhe OEM power settings. Then it's RPM drops to the level that it doesn't remain accurate at the standard setting of RAW HM1000X .22 beyond 50 or 60 yards.

In order to get better accuracy from MRD at 100 yards, we need to shoot it at around 980fps so that it could retain the minimum required RPM upto 100 yards to maintain accuracy.

I have done this testing on FX Impact and MRD doesn't give good accuracy at 930 fps to 940 fps at 100 yards. But as I increase the fps to around 990fps it becomes amazingly accurate at 100 yards.

Now the problem is that RAW HM1000X .22 doesn't come tuned for MRD at around 990fps, hence the pellet's RPM gets reduced beyond 50 yards and it starts becoming inaccurate.

My RAW HM1000X .22 is with BSA barrel and I have same experience. But I have done such modifications to my gun that I achieve around 1000fps with MRD and there the pellet becomes accurate.

I have installed external plenum, high efficiency valve and anti hammer bounce device.

I also use bigger transport for this purpose.

You may visit my YouTube channel for understanding of some of upgrades.

Chanel name is "Bhaur's Airguns Technical".

Following is a link for ease.

Regards,

Bhaur

 

[SpiralGroove]

Good information Mubhaur,
When shooting at 100 yards, I'd found 18.13 grain pellets more accurate vs. the MRD.
I never tried them at the velocities you suggested for greater spin rates. I'll have to do this next Summer.

So far .25 cal. 33.94 JSB's can easily achieve 1 MOA at 100 yards and JSB 18.13 grain can also, just less frequently (both assume no wind).

My .20 caliber RAW (JSB 13.73/15.89) is more accurate at 50 yards than either of the above calibers.

 

[Zach]

I would suggest trying .22 JTS pellets in 22.07 about 970-1000 fps. They’re more consistent pellets and I’ve shot some excellent groups with them. Way more consistently than with JSB pellets in my RAW. I realize that doesn’t help with the wind though.

 

[tommyb]

Good information Mubhaur,
When shooting at 100 yards, I'd found 18.13 grain pellets more accurate vs. the MRD.
I never tried them at the velocities you suggested for greater spin rates. I'll have to do this next Summer.

So far .25 cal. 33.94 JSB's can easily achieve 1 MOA at 100 yards and JSB 18.13 grain can also, just less frequently (both assume no wind).

My .20 caliber RAW (JSB 13.73/15.89) is more accurate at 50 yards than either of the above calibers.

Can you post some of your score targets or groups at 100y with both 18.1 g and 33.94g?

When you say’ “easily achieve MOA,” you have everyone’s attention. I have shot hundreds of groups and score targets with my RAW .22 HM1000x at 100Y, and nothing comes easy for MOA or for score.

I have a RAW HM1000x shooting MRDs at 940 FPS and I believe Bhauer is correct that they need to fly at 970-990 FPS to stabilize. I’m also hoping the new JSB offerings will improve accuracy.

In any case, would be curious to see your results and pics, and understand your setup.

 

[SpiralGroove]

We'll Tommyb,
You got me on that one. The above statement was by no means to say "I'm a marksman" ..... by any definition.
What I will say, is that for two years running I could not shoot a 5/10 shot group better than 1.25" with my .22/.25 RAW's.

I was stuck.

Then last Summer, I decided to get serious about my tune/technique in an attempt to get 1 MOA at 100 yards ...... and not just wing it.
I re-adjusted my SSG's/reg. pressure to be a 95% of maximum velocity at around 900 to 910 fps in .22 and .25. I waxed my pellets, polished and re-crowned my barrels, practiced a consistent cheek/scope weld and shot early in the morning (6 AM) at my range - only.

I actually listened/practiced to what other had said (strictly)- instead of doing it "MY" Loosey/Goosey way.

What I found ..... was that my groups immediately tightened so that I could get (5 shots) MOA groups from the .25 cal. 50% of the time (were talking perfect conditions), maybe 1 out of 3 groups with the 18.13's.

Given I'd never shot one MOA group at 100 yards, I considered what I could now achieve as ........ easy.
Even though my preparation would reflect differently - I had now figured out the bare minimum to achieve 1 MOA.

At this point, I'm not even factoring in reading the wind (I can hear Mike Niksch chuckling).
As you can see, I'm no marksmen and really need to apply myself.

However, I will say: I can do it frequently with the above effort - soon the above practices will become a engrained and I hope to get even better -

 

[tommyb]

We'll Tommyb,
You got me on that one. The above statement was by no means to say "I'm a marksman" ..... by any definition.
What I will say, is that for two years running I could not shoot a 5/10 shot group better than 1.25" with my .22/.25 RAW's.

I was stuck.

Then last Summer, I decided to get serious about my tune/technique in an attempt to get 1 MOA at 100 yards ...... and not just wing it.
I re-adjusted my SSG's/reg. pressure to be a 95% of maximum velocity at around 900 to 910 fps in .22 and .25. I waxed my pellets, polished and re-crowned my barrels, practiced a consistent cheek/scope weld and shot early in the morning (6 AM) at my range - only.

I actually listened/practiced to what other had said (strictly)- instead of doing it "MY" Loosey/Goosey way.

What I found ..... was that my groups immediately tightened so that I could get (5 shots) MOA groups from the .25 cal. 50% of the time (were talking perfect conditions), maybe 1 out of 3 groups with the 18.13's.

Given I'd never shot one MOA group at 100 yards, I considered what I could now achieve as ........ easy.
Even though my preparation would reflect differently - I had now figured out the bare minimum to achieve 1 MOA.

At this point, I'm not even factoring in reading the wind (I can hear Mike Niksch chuckling).
As you can see, I'm no marksmen and really need to apply myself.

However, I will say: I can do it frequently with the above effort - soon the above practices will become a engrained and I hope to get even better -

I understand Kirk, because I’m “stuck” too and I’m no marksman either. Many aren’t either, so we have a lot of company. Your process has certainly helped you, so keep at it.

I think BHaur may have figured out how to optimize his RAW with a combination of tuning/ performance mods; but also by raising his velocity to 990 FPS with the MRDs. Wind reading ( or lack of that ability) is still the biggest deterrent to 100y accuracy, especially with pellets.

Hoping the new 28g may also help when announced.