RAW - Branded Accessories?

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Guys,
Not sure what AirForce is up to, but they came out with a new line of (RAW) stabilization accessories which are attached via scope mount rings - I guess?
If these added weights use the scope rings, where does the scope go?

Maybe I've got it wrong, but these accessories seem ludicrous .......... does anyone understand this seemingly, superfluous addition ?

RAW Rapid Air Worx Accessories | Pyramyd AIR

Shop for RAW Rapid Air Worx Accessories at Pyramyd AIR. World's largest airgun retailer.

www.pyramydair.com

 

[XSUltimate]

The weights mount UNDER the rifle mounted to the picatinny rail under the rifle with a scope ring. The scope and the rings still mount on the top picatinny rail. Hope that helps some!
Thx
Dan

 

[Davec107]

They attach to a pic rail under the forearm of your stock for added weight and vibration dampening when shooting benchrest...they are very effective...

 

[Raydee38]

Waiting for them to release their BR accessories for the HMT stock. Anyone heard anything yet?

 

[SpiralGroove]

So AirForce redesigned Martin's original stock, making it lighter, only to come back and sell an aftermarket accessory to add the weight back?
-> They could easily come up with a simple SSG accessory giving the gun 25-40% greater efficiency ...... for $25.

 

[SpiralGroove]

The weights mount UNDER the rifle mounted to the picatinny rail under the rifle with a scope ring. The scope and the rings still mount on the top picatinny rail. Hope that helps some!
Thx
Dan

Thanks Dan,
Yes, I'd thought of this .... but didn't think they'd go there..... Where does the bi-pod go?
Let's mount as many whistles and bells to the gun as we can ..... the whole idea behind the RAW was K.I.S.S.

 

[Str8tshooter]

Looking forward to the new Mini Hunter.

 

[XSUltimate]

Spiral Groove, some variations of rings provide a picatinny mount on top of the ring cap clamp. When that ring is mounted upside down under the forearm, that would be on the bottom to allow a bipod to be mounted. a bit of extra hardware but I would imagine do-able. Myself, I don't add weights to my rigs but maybe I should experiment! Merry Christmas!
Thx
Dan

 

[BrazosbyNemo]

I shot with Jeff Cloud the first day of the Republic of Texas Match back in November and he was testing them out on his RAW. It looked slick but I did not study it. I am sure he will see this and chime in. Something I hope isn’t getting missed is not the weight but the balance aspect. I like heavy match rifles but without balance it can be a mess. Looks to me like RAW is utilizing the the M Lok chassis system to allow the owners to mess with adding weight and balance. I don’t shoot a RAW match rifle so no dog in this hunt or no experience with their weight or balance. Just bringing my experience from the 10M rifle world. People who shoot 10M rifle pile on the wheel weights to get their rifles balanced. They aren’t trying to add weight. They are trying to achieve a balanced rifle.

 

[SpiralGroove]

Here's my Harmonic weight/dampener/balancer. It's not as flashy, but gets the job done .

1-1/4" Bore DOUBLE SPLIT STEEL (2 PCS) CLAMPING SHAFT COLLAR BLACK OXIDE. | eBay

· Black Oxide Plated Steel Two-Piece Clamping Collar. · Greater axial holding power than set screw or one-piece clamping collars. CB2-125 Double Split Collar 1 1/4" Black Oxide. Bore: 1 1/4". · Recessed Screw Head provides an outside surface free of major projections for safety.

www.ebay.com

.... Guys, I'm not trying to be too critical here ..... and think the RAW idea has merit, but I'm skeptical about $50/$120 for the cure.

 

[beerthief]

Hey Guys,
Not sure what AirForce is up to, but they came out with a new line of (RAW) stabilization accessories which are attached via scope mount rings - I guess?
If these added weights use the scope rings, where does the scope go?

Maybe I've got it wrong, but these accessories seem ludicrous .......... does anyone understand this seemingly, superfluous addition ?

RAW Rapid Air Worx Accessories | Pyramyd AIR

Shop for RAW Rapid Air Worx Accessories at Pyramyd AIR. World's largest airgun retailer.

www.pyramydair.com

my first thought on add on items is
money in the sellers pocket

 

[Franklink]

Benchrest mentality is a head scratcher to me.

I joke about calling many of the benchrest rigs howitzers, but it's going more and more that way.

And in actuality, the definition of "cannon" is more appropriate. Long, heavy, unwieldy....and much of that "long, heavy and unwieldy" is considered desirable features by the benchrest crowd.

My idea of a gun is something that can be held, wielded (enjoyed). The human element of shooting Is a part of the whole process for me, where I derive the enjoyment. Benchrest mentality seeks to isolate the human factor, not only minimizing it, but if possible, entirely eliminating it. Hence adding massive weights, and taking away the stock, and making the trigger a button tethered by a couple feet of electric cord, and etc.

To each their own, I understand the desire for precision, I'm just not willing to detach myself from the rifle or make it weigh 18+ pounds to get there. I enjoy the act of shooting AND chasing precision.

 

[SpiralGroove]

Benchrest mentality is a head scratcher to me.

I joke about calling many of the benchrest rigs howitzers, but it's going more and more that way.

And in actuality, the definition of "cannon" is more appropriate. Long, heavy, unwieldy....and much of that "long, heavy and unwieldy" is considered desirable features by the benchrest crowd.

My idea of a gun is something that can be held, wielded (enjoyed). The human element of shooting Is a part of the whole process for me, where I derive the enjoyment. Benchrest mentality seeks to isolate the human factor, not only minimizing it, but if possible, entirely eliminating it. Hence adding massive weights, and taking away the stock, and making the trigger a button tethered by a couple feet of electric cord, and etc.

To each their own, I understand the desire for precision, I'm just not willing to detach myself from the rifle or make it weigh 18+ pounds to get there. I enjoy the act of shooting AND chasing precision.

What do you shoot for your shooting enjoyment?

 

[thomasair]

Cole, this might give you a bit of perspective. In the early days, benchrest competitors were almost entirely gunsmiths. Not average gunsmiths....but gunsmiths that heavily pursued accuracy. Over the years, some of the gunsmiths began to build rifles for the very few that also wished to participate with them. Besides maintaining your gun in absolute top form....the other biggest skill in BR is wind reading. Both of these skills are incredibly important in other "hands on" disciplines, too.

The former mentioned skill is incredibly evident when I see FT guns that I have built show up at indoor BR matches and shoot poor scores. My FT guns are BR guns in a different stock. The guys that don't get the most out of them are accustomed to the very loose accuracy standards in FT and have simply never learned how to get the most out of their equipment and keep it in that place. This is something I've had to prove to more people than I care to count. Studying BR will teach you how to get the most out of what you have and then it will teach you how to navigate the wind to make the best use of it. To recap....both are incredibly useful skills in most other shooting disciplines....although poorly understood by most.

 

[tommyb]

Benchrest mentality is a head scratcher to me.

I joke about calling many of the benchrest rigs howitzers, but it's going more and more that way.

And in actuality, the definition of "cannon" is more appropriate. Long, heavy, unwieldy....and much of that "long, heavy and unwieldy" is considered desirable features by the benchrest crowd.

My idea of a gun is something that can be held, wielded (enjoyed). The human element of shooting Is a part of the whole process for me, where I derive the enjoyment. Benchrest mentality seeks to isolate the human factor, not only minimizing it, but if possible, entirely eliminating it. Hence adding massive weights, and taking away the stock, and making the trigger a button tethered by a couple feet of electric cord, and etc.

To each their own, I understand the desire for precision, I'm just not willing to detach myself from the rifle or make it weigh 18+ pounds to get there. I enjoy the act of shooting AND chasing precision.

Your post speaks to me. I am 100% in synch.

 

[SpiralGroove]

Cole, this might give you a bit of perspective. In the early days, bench-rest competitors were almost entirely gunsmiths. Not average gunsmiths....but gunsmiths that heavily pursued accuracy. Over the years, some of the gunsmiths began to build rifles for the very few that also wished to participate with them. Besides maintaining your gun in absolute top form....the other biggest skill in BR is wind reading. Both of these skills are incredibly important in other "hands on" disciplines, too.

The former mentioned skill is incredibly evident when I see FT guns that I have built show up at indoor BR matches and shoot poor scores. My FT guns are BR guns in a different stock. The guys that don't get the most out of them are accustomed to the very loose accuracy standards in FT and have simply never learned how to get the most out of their equipment and keep it in that place. This is something I've had to prove to more people than I care to count. Studying BR will teach you how to get the most out of what you have and then it will teach you how to navigate the wind to make the best use of it. To recap....both are incredibly useful skills in most other shooting disciplines....although poorly understood by most.

So Mike,
Are you saying the new, RAW stabilization add-on accessories are part of "maintaining your gun in top form"?

- If yes, how much of a factor does this represent? IYO are crude devices as I use (collar Ring) effective at achieving the same goal?

I understand reading the wind is likely more ................. of a necessity for long distance bench shooting than part 1.

 

[Franklink]

Cole, this might give you a bit of perspective. In the early days, benchrest competitors were almost entirely gunsmiths. Not average gunsmiths....but gunsmiths that heavily pursued accuracy. Over the years, some of the gunsmiths began to build rifles for the very few that also wished to participate with them. Besides maintaining your gun in absolute top form....the other biggest skill in BR is wind reading. Both of these skills are incredibly important in other "hands on" disciplines, too.

The former mentioned skill is incredibly evident when I see FT guns that I have built show up at indoor BR matches and shoot poor scores. My FT guns are BR guns in a different stock. The guys that don't get the most out of them are accustomed to the very loose accuracy standards in FT and have simply never learned how to get the most out of their equipment and keep it in that place. This is something I've had to prove to more people than I care to count. Studying BR will teach you how to get the most out of what you have and then it will teach you how to navigate the wind to make the best use of it. To recap....both are incredibly useful skills in most other shooting disciplines....although poorly understood by most.

Wasn't meant as disparaging remarks to benchrest, as part of the topic of RAW marketing a turnkey weight system (vs the jerryrigged weights we've been seeing in the last few years) just noting how the idea of adding POUNDS to a gun is hard for me to wrap my brain around.

I completely understand how reading the wind is a skill the benchrest guys hone.

Field Target accuracy requirements are indeed loose, and that goes along with the body being used to support the gun. So even with the large desired poi (per benchrest standards) clean/perfect scores in ft are rare. It's harder when the gun is being held. And that's where I was going with the weights, some is good, but there's a limit when a human is supporting and operating the gun, versus having it quasi mounted on a bench like a little tank turret or independently supported piece of artillery mounted to an axle and wheels.

 

[SpiralGroove]

Benchrest mentality is a head scratcher to me.

I joke about calling many of the benchrest rigs howitzers, but it's going more and more that way.

And in actuality, the definition of "cannon" is more appropriate. Long, heavy, unwieldy....and much of that "long, heavy and unwieldy" is considered desirable features by the benchrest crowd.

My idea of a gun is something that can be held, wielded (enjoyed). The human element of shooting Is a part of the whole process for me, where I derive the enjoyment. Benchrest mentality seeks to isolate the human factor, not only minimizing it, but if possible, entirely eliminating it. Hence adding massive weights, and taking away the stock, and making the trigger a button tethered by a couple feet of electric cord, and etc.

To each their own, I understand the desire for precision, I'm just not willing to detach myself from the rifle or make it weigh 18+ pounds to get there. I enjoy the act of shooting AND chasing precision.

Franklink,
I've seen your posts getting the BRK Ghost to shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yards .
This obviously requires some bench-rest mentality/technique - even though you're trying to maintain the "human element".
At what point does needed bench-rest mentality overtake the human element and become a head scratch-er?

 

[Franklink]

Great question.

Probably a different answer for everyone, but for me that line of demarcation is when the gun is no longer useable as a gun. Ie can it reasonably be carried in the field? Can it be shouldered? Can it be shot from the varying positions guns are typically shot from (offhand, leaning against a post, rested on a fence, from a bumbag or stool or off the knee etc) and still put the projectile where desired?

So is it a projectile launching machine sitting atop a table, or is it a functional gun meant and intended to be held and operated?

Mounting a 4.6lb weight (like in the case of one of the RAW offerings that started this discussion) turns it into a projectile launching machine relegated to a table top.

 

[thomasair]

So Mike,
Are you saying the new, RAW stabilization add-on accessories are part of "maintaining your gun in top form"?

- If yes, how much of a factor does this represent? IYO are crude devices as I use (collar Ring) effective at achieving the same goal?

I understand reading the wind is likely more ................. of a necessity for long distance bench shooting than part 1.

I can't say. I can say that there is a difference between a flimsy gun with weight added to it and a heavily built gun of equal mass.