Quick question about Airgun VS. PB

[Smitty8141]

I’ve seen it a few times but can’t find it anywhere. What is the equivalent shooting distance between an Airgun and PB. I know it’s a function of drop, but I’ve seen a few times where there was a rough estimate, ie. 100 yards with an Airgun equals 300 yards with a PB. 

 

[MrP]

That's going to depend. there is overlap between high powered airguns and low powered pb's.

 

[JimNM]

Not sure of what you are looking for. Your stated comparison is completely arbitrary and meaningless to me. The general terms of Airgun and Powder burning gun are so vague as to be impossible to compare against each other. 

 

[tommyb]

I’ve seen it a few times but can’t find it anywhere. What is the equivalent shooting distance between an Airgun and PB. I know it’s a function of drop, but I’ve seen a few times where there was a rough estimate, ie. 100 yards with an Airgun equals 300 yards with a PB.

I don’t think there is a logical or rational way to equate shooting distances between airguns and PB rifles.

As an example. I have two HP .22 Airguns ( RAW and Redwolf ) that shoot 930 and 970 average FPS with JSB 25 grain redesign pellets, which I use for 100 yard Benchrest scoring with paper targets. I also regularly shoot two Anschutz .22 LRs at around 1100 FPS with 40g bullets also at 100 yards. For me, the Anschutz .22 LRs can always outperform the two Airguns in terms of scoring and accuracy at that 100 yard distance. Better groups and accuracy with the LRs. Competition BR shooters might do as well or better than me with Airguns vs. .22 LR at 100 yards, but generally speaking, I believe a high end .22 LR would not equate to a HP air gun at that same distance and caliber. 

That said, I’m not sure how I could compare my air gun accuracy at 100 yards, in any meaningful way to equate my ability to shoot the Anschutz .22 LRs with the same accuracy at say 200 yards. In other words, just because I shoot several MOA groups at 100 yards with the RAW and Redwolf, doesn’t mean that I could do the same at 200 yards with the Anschutz .22 LRs.

Too many variables: I.e., velocity, much greater distances, drop, weights of pellets vs. bullets, wind, hold overs, scopes, etc. Air guns and Centerfire rifles are too different in my mind to do such a comparison. 

 

[Eaglehorn]

Need specifics, especially calibers.

 

[JamesD.]

http://gundata.org/blog/post/30-06-ballistics-chart/

I've shot at 350-450 quite often just to compare for my Dad who use to shoot at National Matches with my Uncle.

In this comparison you can see a .22 slug is roughly similar in drop alone around 350+ to no more than 400 yards.

There are closer calibers and distances but of sheer 1000 yard comps?

When a windless day occurs, one can start driving slugs into 18"x21" quite easily. If you get the holdover correct with landmarks one can easily do 10" groups or smaller. How much wind? Depends on how much you want to torture or challenge yourself to learn. 
Today's AG's are very capable but 300 yards is where most stop, as you're kind of wasting air & lead but it's a fun try. 


Hey OP, you might not know but you can download StrelokPro and compare ANY projectiles, drop, flight time, any & everything. It makes long shots easy once you know how to use it and you have a good rangefinder.



Airguns are great but they ain't ever gonna be no 6.5CM.

 

[elh0102]

Totally depends on the rifles and cartridges in question. But at the extreme, there can be little comparison. I don't think there is a 1,000 yard competition for air rifles! Theoretically, there is no reason an air rifle could not be built to shoot at most any range, but I'm speculating well beyond the limit of general production air rifles. 

 

[wimpanzee]

You can get a rough estimate by calculating flight time.

~900fps vs ~2500fps or whatever PB load you are comparing.

 

[Arzrover]

Somewhere along my airgun path... someone made a statement that shooting an airgun at 50 yards was equivalent to shooting a 30.06 at 500 in difficulty. I believe that would have been for a 12 ft lb springer from my current perspective and probaby referred to wind doping and criticality of technique .

I believe this was what the op was looking for. I'm sure there could be lots of argument about the ratio. I would think it would be much less for some of the current rigs and ammo, but the sentiment of the statement would still apply.

Bob

 

[steve123]

I'd rather use windage instead of drop but you can work with both. The reason I would choose so is because I would want to use the AG to practice how much windage I'd need to use at whatever distances I would use the PB at. In other words the AG would be the trainer for the PB.

Establish start distance where both coincide as far as windage needed, say at 1 mph. Then use a ballistic calculator find at what distances the AG blows in the wind in mils, inches, or moa, similarly compared to the PB.

I brought up SHOOTER app on my phone and will use JBM calculations on my computer to make quicker referencing. I'll use my Vulcan2/30cal/44's at 865fps and my 22rf/40gr at 1100 fps. In this case I'll pick 5 mph deflection in milliradians in a value wind, meaning it is coming directly from the side. I did this to show how much more the AG blows than the 22rf in a normal wind speed.

Wind drift below

22rf at 90Y is .5 mil - AG at only 39Y is .5 mil

22rf at 110Y is .6 mil - AG at only 47Y is .6 mil

22rf at 130Y is .7 mil - AG at only 56Y is .7 mil



Next my 6mmBR with 105gr at 2850 fps compared to the AG

6br at 585Y is .5 mil - AG is same at 39Y

6br at 696Y is .6 mil - AG is same at 47Y

6br at 797Y is .7 mil - AG is same at 56Y

The correlations will be approx between PB and AG but it's better than not practicing at all.

 

[Vetmx]

I have seen this debate before and have thought about it myself. I started shooting PB’s long range in the early 80’s. My dad would take me to abandoned strip mines and we would spend the day shooting between 400 and 1,000yrds. For the last 10 years I spend a bunch of time shooting airguns between 50 and 100yrds. Sometimes stretching my better guns out to 150yrds. The problem that nobody has mentioned is the ability to first establish CONSISTENT sub moa accuracy with an airgun at 100yrds. With a real gun it’s easy. I don’t own a PB that won’t shoot at least a nickel size group every time I take it to the range. When you have that kind of baseline accuracy, wind doping and calculating drop is easy. If your airgun won’t produce that kind of accuracy every time you squeeze the trigger, then that’s where the comparison ends. Airguns are a whole different animal and should only be compared to other airguns. Will my FX or RTI out shoot a 22lr at 100yrds? On a good day, yes. But the 22lr has many more good days than an airgun and that’s the difference.

 

[-Blue]

Somewhere along my airgun path... someone made a statement that shooting an airgun at 50 yards was equivalent to shooting a 30.06 at 500 in difficulty

This is close and I know I’m going to get it wrong too.

long ago “someone” compared the ballistics between shooting a certain weight .22 pellet (18 grain?) traveling at a certain speed (850? FPS) at 100 yards with a .30 caliber something (.308 is what I heard but maybe 30-06) shooting a certain distance (I remember it being 500 yards).

what I remember being told was that the ballistics were very similar in regards to time in flight, drop, and drift.

 

[tommyb]

Somewhere along my airgun path... someone made a statement that shooting an airgun at 50 yards was equivalent to shooting a 30.06 at 500 in difficulty. I believe that would have been for a 12 ft lb springer from my current perspective and probaby referred to wind doping and criticality of technique .

I believe this was what the op was looking for. I'm sure there could be lots of argument about the ratio. I would think it would be much less for some of the current rigs and ammo, but the sentiment of the statement would still apply.

Bob

Geez Bob..

Does the comparison still apply to doing pretty good with a PCP ( not a 12 FPE Springer) at 50 yards? If so, I feel better already. Some good posts and additional information on this thread. 

OP - glad you asked..

Tom 

 

[Smitty8141]

I vaguely remember the comparison was flight time and projectile drop. I’m shooting a .25 cal, 33g slug at approximately 920fps and at a distance of 310 yards. Last time I was shooting I was just thinking about 310 yards with an Airgun, what the equivalent distance would be with a PB. A lot of good info above, it does make a direct comparison difficult, if not impossible. 

 

[d3vnull]

As another reference Oleg Volk says with a .22 air rifle:

"This way, 60-yard practice provides learning opportunities similar to 300-400 yard shooting with the AR10."

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2019/07/19/serious-marksmanship-training-air-guns/

 

[Spartan]

I’ve seen it a few times but can’t find it anywhere. What is the equivalent shooting distance between an Airgun and PB. I know it’s a function of drop, but I’ve seen a few times where there was a rough estimate, ie. 100 yards with an Airgun equals 300 yards with a PB.

42. Same as the equivalent shooting distance between a sling shot and a bow and arrow. And even the same as the equivalent shooting distance between a potato gun and an RPG.

 

[steve123]

Just mentioning this - you can choose a different sized steel for the PB and for the AG. Like a 3 moa size for the AG and a 1.5 moa sized steel for the PB. This compensates for less precision in the AG in most cases. So for example you had a 3 moa steel at 50Y which is approx 1.5" for the AG and a 1.5 moa steel at 200Y for the PB which is 3" approx. Or a 3 moa steel at 75Y which is approx 2.25" for the AG and a 1.5 moa steel at 300Y which is 4.5". And so on. Or calculate moa sized steel for both relative to distance and drops.

Here's typical elevation required for a 308 load with 175gr going 2670 fps. Elevation required for my AG, the Vulcan2 30 cal I used in my previous post.

200Y for PB is .4 mil, AG is .4 mil at 47Y 

300Y for PB is 1.1 mil, AG is 1.1 mil at 59Y

400Y for PB is 1.9 mil, AG is 1.9 mil at 71Y or 6" sized steel for the PB and a 2.2 sized steel for the AG" 

 

[Vetmx]

Just mentioning this - you can choose a different sized steel for the PB and for the AG. Like a 3 moa size for the AG and a 1.5 moa sized steel for the PB. This compensates for less precision in the AG in most cases. So for example you had a 3 moa steel at 50Y which is approx 1.5" for the AG and a 1.5 moa steel at 200Y for the PB which is 3" approx. Or a 3 moa steel at 75Y which is approx 2.25" for the AG and a 1.5 moa steel at 300Y which is 4.5". And so on. Or calculate moa sized steel for both relative to distance and drops.

Here's typical elevation required for a 308 load with 175gr going 2670 fps. Elevation required for my AG, the Vulcan2 30 cal I used in my previous post.

200Y for PB is .4 mil, AG is .4 mil at 47Y 

300Y for PB is 1.1 mil, AG is 1.1 mil at 59Y

400Y for PB is 1.9 mil, AG is 1.9 mil at 71Y or 6" sized steel for the PB and a 2.2 sized steel for the AG"

I like this. You are keeping the airgun distances in a range where it’s accuracy is generally consistent with what a good PB can match out to 400yrds. This is realistic. Like I said before, if your airgun won’t produce almost pellet on pellet accuracy at the distance you want to shoot, how can you make accurate and ethical adjustments for windage and elevation. For example, if your airgun struggles to get 1.5” groups at 100yrds, when you make an adjustment for a 125yrd shot, you are possibly already at least 1.5 inches off because of your guns loose groups. Most good airguns can keep things very tight out to 70yrds. Yeah, that’s not bragging distances or worth a glory topic but it is realistic for comparing an airgun to a PB for practicing purposes.

 

[sillymike]

Personally, I'll use reduce size targets to simulate distances

 

[Jungle_George]

I got into Airguns partially to save money and partially to simulate shooting at long distance. Like others have mentioned it is an apples and oranges sort of thing when trying to make a linear comparison. For example, I have hit golf balls at 710 yards with my 22-250 using a 53 gn bullet. I can do that in winds up to about 5 MPH if the wind is reasonably steady for 30-60 seconds. I have also hit golf balls at 200 meters in .177 with my AT-44. It's hard for me to say which is the more difficult shot or even of the are equal in difficulty. The shot with the 22-250 was done using a 4-16x scope at 16x. The AT-44 has a 6-24X scope set at 24X. The size of the golf ball in the scope is WAY bigger on the airgun and from that perspective is much easier to sight in. However, for the airgun, if the wind varies even 1 MPH, that can easily be the difference between a hit and a miss. The 22-250 is zipping along at 4000 FPS (custom hand load) and the 12.5 gn slug is going 892 FPS.

In the overall scheme of things my gut tells me that the two shots are both in the same ballpark in terms of difficulty, but the skill sets used to make each shot are somewhat different.