I just purchased a Crossman Valiant 22 for plinking, pest control (feral cats mostly) and small game hunting. The reviews said the scope was junk so I purchased a new one out the gate and I need some feedback on my expectations. I simply can’t zero this thing in even with a lead sled. I’m an avid shooter and reloader plus I am retired military and definitely know my way around a gun but this thing baffles me. Am I wrong to assume I can get 3 shot groups under a quarter at 15-20 yards with a 22 air rifle? Right now they migrate all over the paper as if there isn’t any consistency to the pressure between shots. I’m seriously about ready to return it.
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- Thread starter Hondomac
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What your are experiencing is normal for a new Break Barrel Air Rifle shooter.
First the gun needs to be broke in and “leaded in”. That could take a few hundred pellets. Like 500 or more.
Second. Break Barrel rifles are “hold sensitive”. A lead sled will not help. Start by shooting off a bench with the forend of the rifle resting a sandbag. I suggest placing the sand bag right in front of the trigger guard. Edit This Out (Drop down to the Springer/break barrel thread look through there lots of info on techniques of shooting a break barrel.) Have patience. And lastly go on line and order some H&N Field Target Trophy’s or JSB Exact pellets. It’s been my experience most pellets you find at your local sporting goods store don’t shoot worth a poop
Good Luck
First the gun needs to be broke in and “leaded in”. That could take a few hundred pellets. Like 500 or more.
Second. Break Barrel rifles are “hold sensitive”. A lead sled will not help. Start by shooting off a bench with the forend of the rifle resting a sandbag. I suggest placing the sand bag right in front of the trigger guard. Edit This Out (Drop down to the Springer/break barrel thread look through there lots of info on techniques of shooting a break barrel.) Have patience. And lastly go on line and order some H&N Field Target Trophy’s or JSB Exact pellets. It’s been my experience most pellets you find at your local sporting goods store don’t shoot worth a poop
Good Luck
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Well said survivor45 ! Yes ! It's easily possible to get three shots under a quarter at 15-20 yards with a 22 air rifle. Many of the guys in this forum do that at 30-40 yards with their eyes closed. The scope is probably crap. Make sure your stock fasteners are tight. Use Loctite 242 if they keep coming loose. Pellets matter. Try some JSB, H&N, AA, or other doomed quality pellets. Avoid pointed pellets as for the most part they don't shoot all the accurate in airguns. Some suggest the Artillery Hold doesn't work but research it and give it a try. Learn breathing and managing trigger pull methods for better shot consistency. And most of all..PRACTICE!
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A cheap piston gun can put an avid shooter and reloader off airguns. However if you get to shoot a good pre-charged pneumatic you'll be amazed. Many can put ten-shot groups under a quarter at 50 yards.
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I’ve had bad experiences shooting for groups with with break barrels. I usually have to shoot tons of different pellets to find one that shoots decent. Just my experience though. I like underlever springers. Like a Gamo CFR, cfx or accu. They’re less “hold sensitive” too.
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No lead sled already mentioned. Double check your stock screws, most use either Blue Loctite or Vibra-Tite VC-3 to keep them where they belong. Random not so dumb question but what scope did you buy? Spring and gas rammed rifles will eat non-springer rated scopes unless you use something like the Diana ZR mount.
Another random thought but what pellets have you been using?? Already been mentioned you'll probably have to try a bunch to find one or 2 that barrel shoots well. For an easy, cheaper way than buying a dozen + different tins of pellets to try, Straight Shooters has a .22 cal sampler you might try:
http://www.straightshooters.com/straight-shooters-full-pellet-sampler-.22.html
Hope some of this helps
Another random thought but what pellets have you been using?? Already been mentioned you'll probably have to try a bunch to find one or 2 that barrel shoots well. For an easy, cheaper way than buying a dozen + different tins of pellets to try, Straight Shooters has a .22 cal sampler you might try:
http://www.straightshooters.com/straight-shooters-full-pellet-sampler-.22.html
Hope some of this helps
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Welcome to the springer world (spring coil or gas ram) of shooting. Springers can be a beast to shoot, especially those with magnum or higher FPS ratings. I have Gamo, Crosman, and Weihrauch. The first two are very, very pellet picky; the W's, not so at all. The first two shoot just under 1,000 FPS and are harder to shoot a ragged whole at 13 yards (my practice board) than my lower FPS shooting Ws. My lowest rated shooting Weihrauch is my favorite pest killer. Kill shots are not the result of more power--but better placement. I have less recoil, vibration, or hold sensitivity with this low-medium shooter, and I can consistently hit dime size targets from 13-25 yards. Though I can't shoot more than 30 yards, I believe that I could do golf ball (but never shoot those) size targets that far, since I'm killing tree rats at that distance (occasionally). Typically, the less expensive springers present more hindrances (trigger, weight, recoil, pellet picky, barrel droop, poor quality scopes, or lack of balance) for first timers. I grew up hunting; but accuracy with a springer took me lots of practice.
Have fun, practice, and be safe,
Arch_E
Have fun, practice, and be safe,
Arch_E
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The first thing you will hear in this forum is buy a PCP. You don't need one. I have a multitude of break barrel rifles and can shoot all of them with constant accuracy. Shoot a few hundred pellets the rifle will settle down. Sounds like you have a dieseling problem it will go away. Use a artillery. Hold your rifle loose more like cradling it.a light hold will go a long way.
Put simply, the artillery hold means holding your air rifle so lightly that it can recoil in any direction it wants to. Since the pellet remains in the barrel a long time after the shot, this means that the muzzle will always be in the same place, shot after shot, because there's no outside influence forcing it to go elsewhere.
Good luck have fun and don't give up to soon.
You definitely don't need a PCP and all the extra expenses and headaches that go along with them. However most on this forum will tell you otherwise. Most here are on the PCP darkside and you are beneath them if you shoot Springer's.
I find my Magnums actually easier to shoot probably because they are heavy and thus less recoil.
Put simply, the artillery hold means holding your air rifle so lightly that it can recoil in any direction it wants to. Since the pellet remains in the barrel a long time after the shot, this means that the muzzle will always be in the same place, shot after shot, because there's no outside influence forcing it to go elsewhere.
Good luck have fun and don't give up to soon.
You definitely don't need a PCP and all the extra expenses and headaches that go along with them. However most on this forum will tell you otherwise. Most here are on the PCP darkside and you are beneath them if you shoot Springer's.
I find my Magnums actually easier to shoot probably because they are heavy and thus less recoil.
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There are several things that cause your problem. Pellet used. First you need to shoot several types of pellets. My Gamo will shoot 14.35 JSB's through a ragged hole at that distance. It will also shoot a shotgun pattern with Ruger pointed. It will shoot some pellets for a while after cleaning the barrel and soon lead up and start throwing them all over the place. As mentioned hold is critical. I put about 20,000 shots through mine before I stopped finding a better pellet/technique combination. I can now pick mine up and put the first shot through a 1/2" circle at 30 yards and even after six months I would have never thought it possible. I have a PCP and love it but it is not near the challenge of the break barrel. Always lay the rifle on your hand and pick it up the same every time. I use my hand because I always take it along hunting and I use a trigger stick as a rest but always lay the gun on my hand. Now I am going to tell you where many guys, myself included, go wrong. Instead of trying to shoot good groups, change your hold intentionally and watch where the pellet lands. Tight cheek verses loose cheek and poi goes left and right. Thumb pressure on pistol grip will change elevation. Intentionally shoot poorly and mark down where the pellet lands. Then when you start pulling them together, and you will, you will have an idea if what caused the bad shot. When testing pellets I strongly recommend you start with a clean barrel and forget about the first 20 or so and then check for groups. Also there is a learning curve so start with some of the cheaper pellets to get the feel of the trigger and come up with a hold that you can replicate without any thought process. My only regret that I have is that I waited till the age of 67 to start. Some have suggested you get a PCP and that may be the right advice for you. I honestly was discouraged and got my Mrod before I had my technique perfected with the Mach1. I was at a point where I was ready to sell the breakbarrel but I am a guy who loves a challenge so I ordered some JSB's and found they were the answer I was looking for. I still have to pull a dry patch through it every 30 or 40 shots but if I do it is first shot accurate and shoots ragged holes at 30 yards but if I let it go to 50 to 60 shots before dry patching it the groups start getting quarter size and eventually orange size. Each gun is different and it is up to you to find the right combination. Good luck. Gary
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Edit: Gary (previous poster) beat me to it.
I am a noob, and have basically no experience....firearms or air. But maybe this will help anyway.
Surprised no one has mentioned it yet....clean the barrel. There is usually a lot of shipping/preservation gunk in there (causing the dieseling someone mentioned previously). And also as it was mentioned already, make sure the screws are tight.
I still haven't found a pellet my entry level break barrel likes. I've tried at least 12 different pellets, from 3 manufacturers. 3-4000 pellets through it since purchasing last summer. I can't shoot it worth a d@mn.
Determined that it was not all my inability, I purchased something a bit better than entry level. I've only shot about 200 pellets through it, and from the first group, it has shot better. I'm getting better groups at 30 yards with it than the other one at 15. And I don't even know what pellet/s it prefers yet.
I guess my point is that some of it could be the rifle. But I would certainly experiment with different pellets, and more importantly (as others have said), experiment with different holds. Try resting on a bag. Or on your hand on a bag. Up close to the trigger guard, mid way on the piston stroke, further out. Loose. Medium. Firm grip. Try it all.
I am a noob, and have basically no experience....firearms or air. But maybe this will help anyway.
Surprised no one has mentioned it yet....clean the barrel. There is usually a lot of shipping/preservation gunk in there (causing the dieseling someone mentioned previously). And also as it was mentioned already, make sure the screws are tight.
I still haven't found a pellet my entry level break barrel likes. I've tried at least 12 different pellets, from 3 manufacturers. 3-4000 pellets through it since purchasing last summer. I can't shoot it worth a d@mn.
Determined that it was not all my inability, I purchased something a bit better than entry level. I've only shot about 200 pellets through it, and from the first group, it has shot better. I'm getting better groups at 30 yards with it than the other one at 15. And I don't even know what pellet/s it prefers yet.
I guess my point is that some of it could be the rifle. But I would certainly experiment with different pellets, and more importantly (as others have said), experiment with different holds. Try resting on a bag. Or on your hand on a bag. Up close to the trigger guard, mid way on the piston stroke, further out. Loose. Medium. Firm grip. Try it all.
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Another thing I like to do when breaking in a new gun is to shoot heavier pellets for the first hundred pellets. I may be wrong but I believe that there is more stress put on the rifles internals breaking it in a little faster. I'm not concerned about groups for these first hundred shots. Then start trying different pellets.
I have rifles that don't care which pellet you shoot and some that like only one or two.
SPRINGER'S ARE LIKE A LADY. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY LIKE. KNOW HOW TO HOLD THEM. EACH ONE DIFFERENT
Two identical rifles can and will shoot differently let it be pellet, PB's or a muzzleloader.
Most of all have fun. Try everything and don't give up.
I bet 95% or more of the shooters in airguns as adult airguners came over from PBs and the same technique that you use on your 3006 will not work when shooting springer.
Those people try them for awhile then set them in the corner. Then purchase PCP and say this is great this rifle shoots just like a 3006 and I don't have to learn a damm thing So I guess its time to bad mouth springers. Because I refuse to learn how to shoot the Springer sitting in the corner. They will tell you you can't hit anything at a hundred yards.... false. they will say you can't hunt with them... false. All because they never took the time to learn a new technique.
To bad for them.
I have rifles that don't care which pellet you shoot and some that like only one or two.
SPRINGER'S ARE LIKE A LADY. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY LIKE. KNOW HOW TO HOLD THEM. EACH ONE DIFFERENT
Two identical rifles can and will shoot differently let it be pellet, PB's or a muzzleloader.
Most of all have fun. Try everything and don't give up.
I bet 95% or more of the shooters in airguns as adult airguners came over from PBs and the same technique that you use on your 3006 will not work when shooting springer.
Those people try them for awhile then set them in the corner. Then purchase PCP and say this is great this rifle shoots just like a 3006 and I don't have to learn a damm thing So I guess its time to bad mouth springers. Because I refuse to learn how to shoot the Springer sitting in the corner. They will tell you you can't hit anything at a hundred yards.... false. they will say you can't hunt with them... false. All because they never took the time to learn a new technique.
To bad for them.
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This was all great feedback and it appears I’ve tried lot of it before I found this group. Out of the box I inspected all screws and connectors. I started with use placing the gun on the shooting table, transitioned to my hand under it, sandbag next then lead sled. I tried using the pistol grip and ignoring it, cheek on stock and off, loose grip and firm but very little changed. I bought 4 different pellets expecting some variation while shooting but they all seem to preform the same.
The big take away i get is shoot it a ton to settle it in. That I didn’t expect. At the time I purchased this I bought my son a $32 BB gun and with minor adjustments I can do the groups I desired with it. I’ll be honest, I was looking for a tool for myself and not a hobby when I purchased the 22. If I loved it I would be very unlikely to get another for that reason. With that said I’ll likely return it and I might try an under lever version since the comments indicate it is more forgiving. If not, then it was an interesting experiment for the kid and myself.
Again, thank you all for the comments.
The big take away i get is shoot it a ton to settle it in. That I didn’t expect. At the time I purchased this I bought my son a $32 BB gun and with minor adjustments I can do the groups I desired with it. I’ll be honest, I was looking for a tool for myself and not a hobby when I purchased the 22. If I loved it I would be very unlikely to get another for that reason. With that said I’ll likely return it and I might try an under lever version since the comments indicate it is more forgiving. If not, then it was an interesting experiment for the kid and myself.
Again, thank you all for the comments.
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Springers whether they are a coil spring or gas spring take time to shoot well. We still don't know what scope your using ?
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