Question for Alkin owners

[bubblerboy64]

OK an up date. I spoke with David and Ayden (sp ?) The issue is these compressors are sold for a number of uses. Most for scuba. The scuba tanks do not have gauges nor do they have bleed valves. The fact that we have pressure release valves on our tanks changes the situation. Basically we don’t need that fill valve on the fill whip. We should have a gauge (not trusting the gauge on our tanks) 

The solution. They are going to modify my fill whip so that it will have a gauge and a quick connect (male or female your choice). Some of you are using 300 Din that also can be done. THEN the difference in operation is we (meaning air gunners) will use the pressure release (bleeder valve) on our TANKS to do what that toggle filler valve (which is now eliminated ) does for the scuba guys. 
Boy I hope this is clear to all of you. I suggested larger wheels as an option. They told me that the Alkin does not need a cool down run after filling.
I explained that Alkin was dealing with some paranoia because many of us are coming from other compressors that had failed. Some chuckles over that.
Alkin is trying to be helpful and it’s just communication . They did not know that our tanks have pressure release valves on them. That is the game changer I think . 

 

[Chuck-in-Ohio]

Thanks for your effort bubbler, good info!

 

[bubblerboy64]

More info. I’ve talked again with Alkin and I think we learned something. They were not aware that our tanks all have pressure release (bleed) valves. I explained that they all do because other wise you could not disconnect after filling a gun. With this information Ayden said he can mount the gauge (which is normally on the whip) fixed to the compressor at the priority valve and then have a quick connect off of that. That is exactly what I want. I can then fill my air tank using the same whip I fill the gun with. Only difference is the direction of flow. Pictures when I get this completed I also mention larger wheels. Nice people very willing to listen and help .

 

[Scotchmo]

...They were not aware that our tanks all have pressure release (bleed) valves. I explained that they all do because other wise you could not disconnect after filling a gun. ...

That's not true for ALL systems. Typically the smaller tanks/fill_stations that have a regulated output do not have a bleed valve on the input. They are filled via the male, one way foster fitting mounted on the tank. The output side is regulated air, and if it has a bleed valve, that valve is only used for bleeding prior to output disconnect, not input. So you would still need a way to bleed off the air on the compressor side.

Example:

https://www.ansgear.com/Ninja_PCP_90_Cubic_Inch_Airgun_Fill_Station_p/ninjatank-pcp90airgunfs.htm

 

[bubblerboy64]

I stand corrected . MOST air tanks have pressure release or bleed valves.

 

[dyotat100]

Very few tanks have bleed valves. Most people use scba tanks. I have sold 8 or 9 compressors and not one has had a issue with the fill whip. I don't see the problem with the fill whip. I have used the fill whip and there is no issues. Who ever sold you the compressor should have set you up with it the right way. 

 

[bubblerboy64]

Very few tanks have bleed valves. Most people use scba tanks. I have sold 8 or 9 compressors and not one has had a issue with the fill whip. I don't see the problem with the fill whip. I have used the fill whip and there is no issues. Who ever sold you the compressor should have set you up with it the right way.

If you don’t have a bleed valve how do you disconnect from the gun after filling ? 

 

[Humdinger]

I stand corrected . MOST air tanks have pressure release or bleed valves.

There is always an exception to every rule. So how many buyers are looking for a W31 to fill a 90ci regulated tank? Almost none. Alkin U.S. can make a hose to any user's specifications.

Kudos to Bubbleboy64 for this informative thread. I'd like to acknowledge David and Ayden at Alkin U.S.A. for their responsiveness and assistance. They sent an adapter which will simplify and lighten my W31 fill hose. I'll post pics as soon as the hose is modified.

 

[bubblerboy64]

I ordered directly from Alkin. It’s simply a communication problem that will be resolved .

 

[dyotat100]

Very few tanks have bleed valves. Most people use scba tanks. I have sold 8 or 9 compressors and not one has had a issue with the fill whip. I don't see the problem with the fill whip. I have used the fill whip and there is no issues. Who ever sold you the compressor should have set you up with it the right way.

If you don’t have a bleed valve how do you disconnect from the gun after filling ? 





The fill whip that is used on the tank has one. Like it has been for years.

 

[bubblerboy64]

Very few tanks have bleed valves. Most people use scba tanks. I have sold 8 or 9 compressors and not one has had a issue with the fill whip. I don't see the problem with the fill whip. I have used the fill whip and there is no issues. Who ever sold you the compressor should have set you up with it the right way.

If you don’t have a bleed valve how do you disconnect from the gun after filling ? 





The fill whip that is used on the tank has one. Like it has been for years.

Isn’t that what pretty much doing exactly the same thing? Either on the tank or on the whip doesn’t matter from the stand point of the what we are trying to with the compressor.

 

[JamesD.]

I watched heavyw8 video and that’s what Alkin tells you to do. BUT two things. First if you are filling to 300 bar you hardly have time to close the valve on your tank and then operate that toggle lever before the pressure goes over the limit AND more importantly at least on my unit moving the toggle did not vent the fill whip though that vent hole he pointed to. That procedure did not work for me. 
As an aside pretty hard to follow along with the compressor running

Exactly. The instructions weren't clear to air gunners doing a single SCBA.

Most people aren't used to 6,028-8,122 cubic inches per minute. You've got a few seconds before safety valve opens. That's what 3.5-4.7cfm equates to. These are beasts of a compressor that only run at 1050rpm's on W31's.
Very efficient.
For buddy bottles I suggest a bigger SCBA, not a direct fill. No point in firing her up for such small tanks.

Alkin is now aware and offering any whip needed. The customer service is top notch and dealers will guide you through anything. 

 

[heavyw8]

Yeah I have a Omega charger I use to fill directly to my guns if I need ....I think the Alkin is designed for commercial use ...i just use to fill my big tanks i suggest maybe adding a big storage tank with a reg and use the air from the storage tank to fill guns, small tanks, etc. and when your storage tank gets low fire up the Alkin to top off ....





https://youtu.be/FD3_ukilA3E

https://youtu.be/dFCfdkK7Ph0

 

[Scotchmo]

I stand corrected . MOST air tanks have pressure release or bleed valves.

Most compressors have a condensate drain valve. You can use that drain valve to bleed the air. In which case, the air bleed valve on the whip is just a convenience.

 

[bubblerboy64]

I stand corrected . MOST air tanks have pressure release or bleed valves.

Most compressors have a condensate drain valve. You can use that drain valve to bleed the air. In which case, the air bleed valve on the whip is just a convenience.

That is absolutely correct on everything I’ve played with accept the Alkin. On this machine the toggle on the filler valve drains only the air in the whip. Yes I know it’s confusing. I’ve talked to at least four people behind the scenes about this and other guys have talked extensively to Alkin. Everyone has different idea’s and different wants. Alkin has very legitimate concerns as well about what’s safe and doable . It takes a real effort for everyone to read the language and get on the same page. Then understanding the individuals desires. (Not everyone wants the same thing as you can imagine). There has been a considerable effort made by myself and others before me to customize this fill whip to something that suits at least some of us better. Alkin is trying as well. I think I’ve helped the cause and Ayden has assured me he can get me what I want and what he feels will be safe and do the job . If it fails to happen I could never say it was from the lack of trying on everyone’s part. As I said some time ago I’ll post pictures when it’s done. I think it will be easily understood once ya see it. I’m not exactly sure what they are doing but as I understand it will be what hummdinger did but with a gauge. Ayden feels a gauge is essential and I respect that. SO next week maybe.

 

[Scotchmo]

I stand corrected . MOST air tanks have pressure release or bleed valves.

Most compressors have a condensate drain valve. You can use that drain valve to bleed the air. In which case, the air bleed valve on the whip is just a convenience.

That is absolutely correct on everything I’ve played with accept the Alkin. On this machine the toggle on the filler valve drains only the air in the whip. ...

I think I understand what your talking about. The Alkin toggle valve closes the HP air and bleeds the whip. i.e. - toggle has two positions: (HP_closed with bleed_open) and (HP_open with bleed_closed). Sounds like a more foolproof setup on the Alkin.

In that case, when disconnecting the tank from the compressor, you would not need any bleed valve on the tank or on the whip.

 

[bubblerboy64]

In that case, when disconnecting the tank from the compressor, you would not need any bleed valve on the tank or on the whip.

That’s correct as long as you don’t have a gauge between the compressor and the tank. I’m not sure how that comes into play. It must act as a check valve and perhaps not all gauges would do that. BUT I do know that on the STOCK set up the toggle lever releases the pressure in the whip. And the whip only.Depending on the position of the toggle valve being open or closed. (Confused yet? I am ) If you open the drain lines on the compressor you will NOT be able to disconnect the fill whip until you toggle that lever. (again stock configuration using it as directed) AND when I told Ayden that I had a release valve on my air tank he then said he could set things up as I would like. I’m getting in a little over my pay grade here but Ayden says he can do what I want and still retain the gauge which he feels is important ( not trusting the gauge on the tanks). Again pictures when I get it done. 

 

[dyotat100]

If you want to bleed off pressure in the hose use the bleed valve on the filter. 

I had one here as a demo and I could fill guns, small tanks and large tanks. I had it with a foster fiting on it. If you want to bleed off pressure so it doesn't hit the blow off use the valve on filter tower

 

[dyotat100]

 

[bubblerboy64]

Since the pictures have been posted. What I want to do and my understanding is that Alkin can and will do for me is:

on the second picture at the upper left you can see the priority valve ( it says in and out on it) I want Alkin to mount the blue gauge (showing in the first picture ) mounted fixed to that priority valve or to the filter tank ( not clear on that but one or the other.) THEN coming off the gauge will be the quick connects showing in the last picture.
THUS eliminating the whip and the toggle lever valve. 
My whip will come from the air tank to the compressor.
That’s about as clear as I can make it until it’s done