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Question EVERYTHING.....I didn't......but should have

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Xbowsniper

Xbowsniper

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,238
129
New York, United States
In the past, I've been very critical of almost every aspect of my Field Target endeavors. I scrutinize my pellets, my equipment, and everything else in the sport. As a well seasoned individual around water and navigation, I was always taught.......ALWAYS trust your Compass.....and I always have. I applied that to my Field Target quest for perfection. From this point forward, I will not. 

First, a bit of a backstory. For those of you who know me, I am very particular about keeping my equipment in the best possible condition for a match. This includes constant testing and tweaking to keep the velocities of my WFTF Field Target rigs under the 12 ft.lb limit.

This past year, at the Pyramyd Air Cup, when going through to the chronograph station, they read a velocity of 730 FPS, which is a bit low for an 8.4 grain pellet. My normal standard for this pellet is around 790 or so. The first day at Pyramyd had a few shots going on the low side, so I figured something was amiss. Went to the practice bench,and ran it through my chronograph...dead on. I figured that filling it "fixed" whatever issue it was, and checked all my distances......all on. The second day saw much less wind than the first day, and much better performance. Everything worked fine. When I got to the chronograph station, again, it read 735. I ignored what the number was, and continued on with the match, finishing with the highest single day score in all divisions, with Will Piatt being the highest scoring competitor for the weekend.

At the Nationals, same thing happened, only with my backup rig as well. 

Drove me batty to say the least.

Fast forward to today. Over the winter, I acquired an Air Chrony from Czech Republic. This is the official chronograph of WFTF and the World Championships. I ran my rigs through it, and low and behold, it read 735.....for all my rigs. I broke out my old chrony that I used up to this point. 790fps.

I learned the hard way that we SHOULD question the compass. I didn't, never figured it into last season's equation. I basically shot WFTF division all last year with 10 ft lb guns.

Betcha I won't do THAT again!!!!!

Learned a difficult lesson.....the hard way....

Tom Holland 
 
Uglyjohn, wrench,

You are correct that no 2 chronographs are the same, particularly older Master Chronographs like I have. They are known to vary, and sometimes very fussy and quirky under different lighting conditions, I just never fathomed by THAT much. I can understand, say, between 3 or 4 different chronographs of the model that I have, they could be 10 -15 FPS apart from each other, giving a pretty wide spread between the lot. One of the reasons why I got the Air Chrony. It works on sensing the metal (magnetism, maybe???) and are known for their accuracy from unit to unit, which is the main reason why I bought it. I would 100% recommend this unit for any serious airgunner. Next to dumping twice as much coin, or more on a Labrador doppler radar unit, I think this unit is pretty accurate to each other. I have 2 powderburner friends that have them, and this morning we compared all 3 velocity wise. 4 FPS difference between the 3 of them....those numbers give me confidence that it is an accurate and quality unit.

As I said, above, betcha I won't do that again!!!!

Tom Holland 
 
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LabRadars don’t work very well with our little pellets....FYI. They tried to use one for tech at the 2017 Nationals in Phoenix. It was coming up with all kinds of ridiculous readings. Mine had been the same. I never bother with it anymore.

Cleaning the sensors on a regular pro chrono is a good thing to do once in a while, too. I was struggling to get consistency with a rifle last week only to find out the rifle was fine, just the sensor covers were very dirty from shooting my centerfire pistol over it. Once cleaned...the rifle was good.

I shot the 2017 Nats with my gun around 750 FPS with 8.4s just because it was working with my numbers. I don’t think it was really any different than normal that I could tell.

Mike 
 
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Thanks Mike,

I have cleaned the sensors on the Pro Chrono, and still reads the same. It's consistent, but 60 -70 FPS off. I won't be bothered with it anymore, now that I have acquired the Air Chrony. I have full faith in it, and as with everything, only airguns have ever been shot through them all. If you don't have an Air Chrony, I would highly recommend it.

Tom Holland 
 
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If you run the wind drift numbers through ChairGun at 735 vs 785...you will only see about .015” of an inch drift difference at 55y for a 8.44 JSB per MPH of wind. For me, that’s not enough to worry over. For a 5mph wind...that’s just a little over a 1/16th inch different drift. I don’t think I could expect to maintain a 1/16” more or less on my hold. It will be a lot less than that at most targets since there are only a few near 55y at each match.

Probably not worth worrying over...at least for me.

Mike
 
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John, 

That's why I went to the higher end Sightron and Kahles. I might even get another Kahles down the road. I don't expect a scope shift with a $3200 scope, but then again, I didn't think anything was wrong with the chronograph, either.

Mike,

I know exactly what you are getting at, but I tend to use Chairgun and some other ballistic programs to get a rough ballpark read on what I am doing. I've found the pellets drift a whole lot more than what Chairgun says it does. I'll see if I can word this right. 

Let's say that I'm pushing a 8.44 gr pellet at 730 fps. There's a 5 MPH wind at 90 degrees, left to right. Chairgun says the pellet should drift 3.6 inches at 55. I've found it's closer to 5 inches after shooting at this power level all last year.

At 795 fps with everything else above the same, Chairgun says the pellet will drift 3.3 inches at 55. I've found at the higher speed of 795, which is what I set my rigs to, the actual drift is more like 2 inches, maybe a touch more, but not by a lot.

That's a difference according to Chairgun of . 3 of an inch, which as you said is negligible, and probably is. But me actually shooting those power levels with that pellet, I've found almost a 2.5 inch difference. That's a lot when Chairgun says otherwise, and that's why I just use it as a guide. Every yard I have a mark for and a sight setting is shot in real time. That's why I take what the programs say as a rough guideline.

Ah, the Joy's of trying to combat nature's air......with air!!!

Tom Holland 
 
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Hi Tom....I pretty much rely on ChairGun exclusively for my numbers. I zero my gun at 30...then shoot at 10 and 55 and record my numbers. I juggle scope height and BC in the program so they jive with what I came up with and let the program fill in the rest. I have double checked them at actual yardage’s before and could not have done them any better myself. I don’t bother double checking anymore.

As for the wind drift calculations....I have found them to be very reliable as well. I have used multiple kestrel wind meters to verify actual wind velocity...and the relationship is quite linear just like predicted in the app. I’m able to zero my rifle indoors at 30 yard, so I know I have my windage zero nailed. Every time I go to a match , there is somebody on the sight in line bragging that their gun is hitting right where they are aiming in a 5 mph wind or better at 55y....as if it is just defying the wind. The reality is that they don’t have a good windage zero and are clicked into the wind. Things go very bad for them once the wind direction changes or they are on the other side of the course. It’s tough to get a solid zero in windy conditions if you are starting from scratch and don’t know how much drift to expect in a given condition.

This is an article about my method. It works extremely well for me...especially when combined with mirage and reading the reset string. It’s not for everyone. If a person doesn’t like a little math... they won’t like this.

http://www.wftfusa.com/training/an-approach-to-reading-the-wind-and-adjusting-windage/

A person can carry around a kestrel meter for a month or so and guess the wind velocity as often as possible while actually verifying the guess each time with the meter. Pretty soon, they will be able to put a fairly accurate number to just about anything they might encounter on the course.

i guess part of the fun of FT is that there are many ways of doing things...although some will work better for some and not others.

To each, their own.

Mike


 
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Mike,

You halfway read my mind. As I said, I've not a lot of success with the programs, I find that just shooting all my distances real time, is more time saving. I DO agree that you need an absolute zero, at whatever distance you choose to zero, I use a 30 yard zero as well. Once its zeroed, I do not touch it. Some guys like to click for the wind, to me it will mess you up down the road, I'll always use holdover.

I carry a Kestrel with me everywhere. I at least have it at the range with me, to do exactly as you describe. I also have been taught to read the wind from some of the best rifle shooters back in the day. Scope mirage is an excellent tool in determining wind speed and direction, if used properly. 

I'll have to take a look at the link you posted, I'll be the first one to say that I am a math moron, so I'm hoping I can follow it.

Yup, you are right, there are a dozen different ways to do almost everything in this sport, so i guess pick the one that fits your style and your confidence zone

Thanks,

Tom Holland 


 
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Mike,

Took a look at that link, I have seen it before, this time, paid a little more attention to the math, it does make good sense. I do the same thing in reading mirage through the scope, I've found that it is one of the quickest and easiest (if you know what to look for through the scope) ways to determine speed and direction.

Tom Holland 
 
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Have been following this thread. Just got into FT a couple of years ago. Thought I was starting to get the hang of it. WOW... determining wind speed with the mirage effect.... There's sooooooo much to learn. Part of that I like and part of that is overwhelming!

My dream is that someone will put on a "summer camp" on FT shooting, covering everything from scopes and what yardage to zero at and why, to equipment, to reading the wind, to forced positions, etc... Seriously though, I bet if one of you guys did that, folks would show up. 

Chas
 
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Chas,

That would probably be rather difficult, here on Long Island we struggle sometimes just to get a decent number for a match, it's tough to gather people to actually do the event. We had to forego our Grand Prix just for that reason. To run a "summer camp" so to speak, is a great idea, but I think the turnout in general would be low. The problem with this is we don't have everyone in close proximity to each other, 90% of everyone that attends our matches, are several hours away. To get them together for just an instructional session would even be more difficult. That's one of the main reasons that I do what I do on my U Tube Channel for all you guys out there. If there is something that you need to see again, replay it. I tell everyone that views my videos, if you need more details about something that I cover, or questions, please ask. I'll do whatever follow up videos to clarify the question.

Tom Holland 

Field Target Tech 
 
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Chas,

Tom is probably correct about the attendance thing. Myself and some other guys have put on multiple WFTF training events with the exact purpose of what you just described. We also paired up newer shooters with more experienced shooters to further facilitate that condensed learning experience. In the end, we could not garner enough interest to even come close to breaking even on an event. That did not include target investments or other equipment, either. It seemed like a great idea that would have lots of interest...but it has not turned out to be that way in reality.

Mike 
 
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I completely get that. I was more just thinking out loud. Actually, if I'm honest with myself, I'm sort of wanting a short cut to learning. I know the way the learning will happen, perhaps best, is by simply continuing to shoot and attend matches and learning from folks like yourself and my own experience. 

Tom, I'll go through the videos and see what questions I might get answered. Thanks for the offer for follow up questions. 

Chas
 
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