Question about DFL Moderators

I also wonder if your wife was hearing the impact on target. It shouldn't be anywhere near that loud on half power.

With my Streamline 22 on low and mid power with Sumo, Tatsu and Tanto, all that could be heard mostly was the hammer hitting the valve.

The Sumo, Tanto and FX suppressor on my Impact 22 all make the gun quiet despite the power level.




Between the sumo and the FX suppressor, did you notice any difference? I upgraded to sumo for my 22 dream pup, hoping it would be quieter than the DonnyFL FX suppressor. 
 
I have a donny fl Ronin. I have to say this. Dfl is extremely nice looking. The fit and finish is impeccable. Does it quiet my condor? Yes is it backyard friendly? No. Can an airforce condor .25 making 100 fpe be made backyard friendly? Yes! Look donny is awsome and i will buy from him again. However if you have a heavy hitter like a condor or like your gun you need baffles that are high deflection and space for the air to expand. I dont think donny fl has the baffles down just right. I made a pvc ldc with plywood baffles about the same size as my ronin and it worked better than my donny. It looked like crap but its the truth. I heard wolf ldc from russia are the coolest but again will it look as shiny as a donny? Probably not 
 
So I've been trying to test and quantify as many different moderator designs as I can. You can see the results here:
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/fx-crown-bespoke-moderator-tesla-gas-diode/page/5/#post-453278



One somewhat counter-intuitive thing I've discovered is that larger diameter tubes actually have a tendency to make sound attenuation more challenging in regard to cutting that initial peak or "uncorking sound." This appears to hold true, not just on my .22, but also on my big 80 foot pound .30 cal Crown. 

Because of this effect though, the Tatsu might not be your best option for sound suppression. The Tatsu very likely would be out-performed by the Tanto on your gun as it is both longer and smaller diameter. If you're having clipping issues, it is very likely you have muzzle concentricity issues as well, so going with something even longer like the Koi or 0DB may solve one issue but create another. 

As an aside, I've struggled mightily both to figure out why large diameter moderators tend to be louder, and to make one which is quieter. Thus far I've met with failure, to the extent where I'm not only losing what few hairs I have left over the subject, I'm starting to question my sanity. After all, how could a design so much physically larger not be as quiet as or quieter than an otherwise almost identical one of smaller diameter? I don't have the answers yet, but I just completed another round of testing today so hopefully I'm getting there..... *shrug* It really is a very strange problem. 



Anyway I hope something in all that was useful. If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer them, but for now my best advice is to try a different mod because you may not have a setup well optimized for silence, particularly if you're putting that Tatsu on top of your gun's shroud. :)

^^^^ this mirrors my finding too^^^^

a longer thinner mod works better than a shorter fatter mod and in most cases works better than a longer fatter mod. 36mm is the maximum Dia I make mine, 32mm most often.

A simple test to see if the noise is coming from the moderator or action Cover the gun with pillows allowing only the muzzle exposed, take a shot, if is goes bang the mod is not doing what it should. Confirm this by pushing the muzzle deep into the pillow with the gun exposed and take a shot, now you should only hear the action noise.

Bb
 
So I've been trying to test and quantify as many different moderator designs as I can. You can see the results here:
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/fx-crown-bespoke-moderator-tesla-gas-diode/page/5/#post-453278



One somewhat counter-intuitive thing I've discovered is that larger diameter tubes actually have a tendency to make sound attenuation more challenging in regard to cutting that initial peak or "uncorking sound." This appears to hold true, not just on my .22, but also on my big 80 foot pound .30 cal Crown. 

Because of this effect though, the Tatsu might not be your best option for sound suppression. The Tatsu very likely would be out-performed by the Tanto on your gun as it is both longer and smaller diameter. If you're having clipping issues, it is very likely you have muzzle concentricity issues as well, so going with something even longer like the Koi or 0DB may solve one issue but create another. 

As an aside, I've struggled mightily both to figure out why large diameter moderators tend to be louder, and to make one which is quieter. Thus far I've met with failure, to the extent where I'm not only losing what few hairs I have left over the subject, I'm starting to question my sanity. After all, how could a design so much physically larger not be as quiet as or quieter than an otherwise almost identical one of smaller diameter? I don't have the answers yet, but I just completed another round of testing today so hopefully I'm getting there..... *shrug* It really is a very strange problem. 



Anyway I hope something in all that was useful. If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer them, but for now my best advice is to try a different mod because you may not have a setup well optimized for silence, particularly if you're putting that Tatsu on top of your gun's shroud. :)

^^^^ this mirrors my finding too^^^^

a longer thinner mod works better than a shorter fatter mod and in most cases works better than a longer fatter mod. 36mm is the maximum Dia I make mine, 32mm most often.

A simple test to see if the noise is coming from the moderator or action Cover the gun with pillows allowing only the muzzle exposed, take a shot, if is goes bang the mod is not doing what it should. Confirm this by pushing the muzzle deep into the pillow with the gun exposed and take a shot, now you should only hear the action noise.

Bb

Well it is good to hear my observations have been independently replicated at the very least. :p 



As far as action vs. mod, I'm quite certain it is the action. If you put a smaller mod on and it measures lower than the larger one, it clearly isn't the gun's action. ;) That said, this does bring up another good point which is quantifying the action sound explicitly. Not just the sound of the hammer slap per se, but also the sound of the pellet slipping down the barrel, and the air tensioning the mod/shroud, and so on. I should really do this, as it'll provide a performance-floor at the very least. Given how much sound exits the muzzle though, even with the best designs, it'd be hard to imagine that the action sound even on my relatively well tuned Crowns would compete. Maybe on a louder-slappier gun though. 
 
STO

In the uk we have a 12fte power limit unless we jump through a series of hoops, Still the bark from an unmoderated pcp is not comfortable to the ear. It’s not until you fit a really good moderator do you realise how much action noise there is. Spend time tuning both the mod and the action together, does not just make it back yard friendly, you could shoot in a library and no one would notice. For what it’s worth, even a sub 12fte crown fitted with a telescopic shroud fully extended is not what I would consider quiet, while the fx impact sub 12fpe is boarding on loud.

Bb




 
The question I have isn't how much action noise you hear, it is the overall magnitude of it. Sound attenuates dramatically with distance, and so obviously the action noise will be perceived as very loud because it is very close to your face. But my question is more to do with how will it be perceived by others and/or prey, where the differences in distance between the action and the muzzle are negligible? So that is what I want to quantify. I hope that made more sense. :) 
 
There are so many variables when it comes to noises from an air gun. Hammer slap, regulator ping, muzzle blast and location where the shooting is taking place. Shooting a PROD 700 fps from inside the house out the window even with an Emperor at the end may sound loud to the shooter. The hammer is loud even at 700 fps. To make this gun very quiet, you have to lower it down to 600 or even 550 to be stealth. Are most airgunners willing to lower the power on their gun to 600 fps for backyard shooting? Nope! They want to blast that squirrel 30 yds away with slugs shooting 950 fps. One thing that really helps air efficiency and noise is getting a really good tune. When the regulator and HST settings are nsync the gun is powerful yet very quiet. Do you need an emperor, ronin, shogun on a PROD of course not. That's overkill and there's such thing as diminishing returns when you go too big than what the gun actually needs. Airgun suppression is all about volume you don't need 20 baffles in there to make it quiet. Does felt help make a suppressor quieter? of course it does. I wish I didn't have to put mesh screen and wrap all of my suppressors in felt. It adds a lot of cost and very time consuming. But it's very beneficial. The felt helps to absorb the shock and reduces the metallic sound you sometimes hear. It dampens the sound and makes it sound better to the ear. That's why all the big airgun suppressor manufacturers invest in it. I have many different size suppressors because those are the sizes my customers asked for. Originally the sumo was the only suppressor I was going to make but everyone's taste/needs are different and there was a large demand for each size so I supply :) The Ronin and Shogun are basically the same effectiveness just your preference if you want it with a medium OD and long or big OD and shorter. If you really want to get really good feedback on sound ask professional tuners like Ernest, SPAW and Utah airguns, these guys tune guns everyday and they're honest with you if you will need a small tanto or even the Emperor with optional extender. They don't use any fancy db meters, all they use is their trust worthy hearing. 

When I first started making suppressors, I made them out of PVC. They are amazingly quiet. You don't even need baffles in them. Just perforated tube with felt. This is due to the material and lack of vibration. However the material is also its downfall. Very hard to epoxy, not easy to paint, requires set screws for front and rear cap for safety. It also flexes or warp and most likely cause clipping when using a longer length. Most airgunners take pride in the way their gun looks and do not want to put a pvc suppressor on an expensive gun. A metal suppressor may not be as quiet as a pvc but it looks better and most importantly safer and more accurate.

Sorry for the long post, I don't get to visit the forums as much now but trying to answer as many questions as I can.

Happy Shooting everyone!

Donny