Question about "Christmas tree" style reticles

[Ghostranger169]

With the increasing amount of "dirty" or "Christmas tree" style scope reticle offerings, I was just wondering how many people prefer them to clean reticles when shooting air rifles? Does anyone ACTUALLY USE(for example) a holdover dot that is 7 mil down and 5 mils to left/right when shooting air rifles?

 

[beerthief]

when the wind blows ! yes

 

[Hateful McNasty]

I guess it can be better then guesstimating old fashioned Kentucky windage?

 

[Franklink]

I spent a ton of time from about age 8 to 18 looking through 4x Tasco Pronghorn scopes with a simple duplex reticle on a Marlin rimfire. Even what is a relatively "clean" reticle by today's standards feels pretty busy to me after the simple scopes of my youth. The really serious Christmas Tree reticles that I've looked through made me feel like I was only getting half a scope, since 50% of everything is obscured by all the junk.

I can see the reason for all the windage lines, just not my cup of tea. I've made some awfully long shots on pdogs with low fpe guns and holdover, without the trash in my field of view. I'm not sure I could even see some of the pdogs hiding behind all the lines if I went to a true Christmas tree reticle scope.

 

[Kgphotos]

I never cared for that type of reticle until I got into shooting long range with an air rifle. Now with the slower velocities and poor ballistic coefficient of pellets I think such reticles are very helpful. It still does seem rather cluttered when looking through the scope but I do enjoy the benefit as well.

 

[JungleShooter]

I usually prefer dialing my turrets, it's a tad slower, and two tads more precise.
And I video my shots through the scope, so I'd prefer to have a reticle a little less cluttered.

The one below (Falcon 3-18x50 FFP) is my favorite.

Matthias

 

[douger]

like some as long as you can see the hashes good, love the arken reticle

 

[L.Leon]

The Xmas Tree in my Aztec Emerald FFP is not noticed, unless I'm using it, not obtrusive at all. The 2 MOA spacing is actually useable at airgun ranges. I have used holdovers combined with hold offs to get repeated hits in the wind, on targets and pests. Some scopes do overdo the Xmas Trees with hold offs no one would ever use.

 

[Dan25]

With the increasing amount of "dirty" or "Christmas tree" style scope reticle offerings, I was just wondering how many people prefer them to clean reticles when shooting air rifles? Does anyone ACTUALLY USE(for example) a holdover dot that is 7 mil down and 5 mils to left/right when shooting air rifles?

I like them and just bought my first one, Athlon Talos BTR. The turrets are supposed to be under 1% error but I will believe that once I get to the range and test for myself. I love that it’s a first focal plane so I can use the 0.2 mils between hash marks. I really like that I can shoot and see where on the tree the impact is and dial in the corrections. Once I decide on a pellet velocity combination I can get on chair gun and work up my dope charts. My other scope is a 10x SWAFA with mil dots. It’s good but if I had my choice it would have Xmas tree reticle.

 

[dizzums]

im pretty new to them but from what ive seen depends on the scope .. in a lower power scope with smaller objective the clutter can obscure target aquisition ... these are crappy photos but you can see how the more spread out reticle is much 'finer' and will obscure a small target less on the 24x 50obj than the 12x 40obj ..

 

[Ghostranger169]

Thanks for the input, guys.
I understand(and have used) the "small" dirty reticles like the Aztec in @L.Leon's post(or the 3 or 4 holdover lines on a Hawk AMX reticle), but the larger Christmas tree style reticles(that go down to 10 mils or so) just seem like clutter.
I guess my point is that if shooting conditions(wind, distance, etc...) are such that you have to use THAT MUCH hold over and hold off away from center, the shot will probably be "just a poke" and maybe shouldn't be taken. And, if you ARE just taking a "poke" shot or trying to "walk" your shots, the dirty reticle may obscure your view of the impacts that you need to make adjustments. Plus that fact that most of these type shots would be taken at longer distance requiring higher power magnification that most of the dirty reticle would be out of the field of view(if using a FFP scope). Also, the part of the dirty reticle that IS in the FOV at high magnification could mainly be used just for bracketing(dots too far apart to provide useful aimpoints). Both of which are demonstrated in the 1st pic in @dizzum's post.
Also, unless you have your scope/gun very level, you are more likely to miss a good bit to the left or right on any substantial(>5 mils) holdover shot.
On another note, I don't understand the need for a dirty reticle on scopes which advertise how "great" their turrents are for clicking either.
I have shot HFT, 50 and 100 yard benchrest, hunt and pest out to 125 yards, and shot slugs at steel out to 250 yards, I've rarely seen a use for the dirty reticle(using FFP and SFP scopes), especially any thing below 3mils. I also don't often use over 20x magnification either. Maybe someone has specific examples of when and how they use the lower half of one of these Christmas tree reticles. Perhaps I am missing something?

 

[L.Leon]

@Ghostranger169, I've never trusted the repeatability of the elevation turret on my Aztec which is why I use hold overs and hold offs out to 100 yards. On my Helos I dial and, or use hold overs. The lower halves of some Christmas Tree reticles (Horus?, etc.) are absurd... That far down on the Christmas Tree, I'm not even considering sending a shot.

 

[Revoman]

I like and use the tree yet have never experienced any of my shots "not seen" due to clutter. Perhaps my tree's etched lines are somewhat finer, but they are never in the way.
They are very useful if speed is needed, otherwise I use Strelok and dial.
mike

 

[dan_house]

The "dirty" reticles offer more aiming points..... Been a fan since Aeon offered the FT reticle a few years back. Now my go-to is the Nightforce MIL-XT
.2 mil divisions both in elevation and windage, 1/2 mil markings for windages starting at the 1 mil mark for eleveation

 

[steve123]

I shoot out to 300Y with slugs that are only going 750-ish fps so quite often I've dialed all the elevation available in the erector and am also holding over towards the bottom of the FOV using a so called dirty reticle . Often holding off 1-4 mils as well. It's nice to have the reference points in the reticle which I'm constantly using to measure POI to POA and adjust quickly.

The steel I shoot at is about what the vertical is for my rifle at each distance so I need to see exactly where to hold "in the reticle" if I want to keep most of my shots on the steel which is the reason I use reticles with .2 mil hashes throughout.

In my hay day about 10 years ago I used Horus H59 reticles to win both long range steel centerfire matches and one ELR match. Much like how I described in the first paragraph I was also topped out with elevation and using a ton of holdover when I hit the farthest target at 2356Y the first try and won that ELR match by hitting most of the farther targets the same way.

BTW very few times have I not been able to see where I missed in the dirt because the bullet was obscured by the reticle. The reason why is most often its only the debris that the projectile kicks up that one sees anyway.

So I'm used to, and I like, the dirtyness

 

[Ghostranger169]

@steve123,
Thanks for providing a specific example of when and how you use the dirty reticle shooting an airgun. I understand(and use them myself) using them for long range powderburner shots(because they are more accurate relative to MOA at distance, compared to airguns).
When I shoot at 200 to 250 yards with an air rifle, it's "a poke" for fun(3" to 9" ten shot groups depending on distance and conditions) on calm days. Usually at a 12" gong spray painted white or at a splatterburst target. Once there are multiple hits, it becomes difficult to tell where the last impact is, if I don't see it land. Therefore, I like the FOV as clear as possible. This represents <10% of the shooting that I do.
I still have elevation clicks left at 250 yards. Maybe if I shot at 300 yards, I would run out of clicks and need some more holdover points. Then again, I don't think any of my guns/slugs would be accurate enough to hit the broad side of a barn at that distance anyway.
I was wondering if any sub 12 ft/lb shooters(not FT) might chime in about using the dirty reticle for longer shots?

 

[LDP]

I dont need a tree reticle. I click in my drops so as long as the reticle has moa/mil holds along the horizontal reticle line you dont need a christmas tree. I also find it easier to get proper hold off by clicking in drop and using the horizontal marks on the target.

 

[jwrabbit123]

I am older and I learned to shoot with a duplex scope long ago but I also had extensive training in both mil and moa systems and also have very intensive training on some as you call xmas tree reticles like Horus and Tremor , while they do not have a clean look like a simple mildot they sure have a purpose for things such as spotting and calling for corrections and for quick followup shots and what ever gun you use be it a pcp or a .308 or 50 bmg the Horus can be tailored to moving targets and wind and with alot of time behind them you really can see beyond the reticle and use it for holds or calls , I also love to shoot my airguns in windy weather with them to practice the reticles for engagements , they work well but again if you shoot say benchrest or short distances they not really made for this , better for long range in wind or unknown ranges and to dope shots LOU

 

[jwrabbit123]

here is some basic ways to use the system reticle for a weapon system calibration and usage , I like the older H-102 best and the Tremor 3 next, there is alot of info on these reticles
LOU

lastly if you watch this last video this shows you a non xmas tree type reticle where he is simulating a 30mph wind an you can clearly see the advantage of using the xmas tree type in this situation

d

 

[LDP]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I see no advantage to a christmas tree reticle in the wind. If you have a quality scope you should not be holding over you should be dialing for drop and using your horizontal to hold off for correct wind. Even with a christmas tree if you are holding over and off you are trying to line up two points and in a rush to get a shot off you could easily use the incorrect line. The christmas tree reticle is great for the role of a spotter calling shots but thats about it. Dialing for drop and using the horizontal marks for wind is the superior way to do it. Its faster and easier than trying to line up two points that could be 18 moa down and 6.5 moa right. Thats just my opinion.