Proposed Bill C-21 To Ban Airguns in Canada

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Bubblerboy64 Your on the money. People who live in the extremes that are being referred to here and in the minority and the majority just need schooled and reminded to use common sense. Not sure where all this will end up but the folks with the biggest financial stake in this are the manufacturers. Might want to see what their take is on this. I have had lots of customers from Canada over the years and would still have them if I shipped internationally anymore.

To a degree Michael going to have to allow some of these kinds of conversations on this subject matter as long as it doesn't get obnoxious or loud.


 
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I think I understand what Bubblerboy is trying to get at. If I could try and capture it in a slightly different way:



Take someone new to airguns (an adult, group of adults, adults & kids) shooting airguns. Educate them through the action of introducing them to this hobby. Talk to them about some of the history of airguns (the Lewis & Clark Expedition carrying an air rifle always captures my sense of wonder). It's not just a shouting match, it's a chess match for hearts and minds. It's much harder for someone to decide to abandon a freedom, once they have experienced it. Without any plane of reference, it's easy for the uninvolved to give something up. Remind them at the end how enjoyable the experience was, and remind them how lucky we all are to have choices to make, not to have choices made for us.



Yes, there are times for civil discourse. Let the voices for defending civil liberties anywhere be the calm, rational, adult voices in the room, not the shouting, ranting voices. That is a very hard thing to do, but it is the most persuasive way I know. Put another way: "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."



Bubblerboy, I apologize if I did not correctly capture your sentiment. The error is entirely mine.



Michael, I know you want to avoid politics, as would everyone, but they won't avoid this hobby. If you must erase this post, I understand.


 
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Bubblerboy64 Your on the money. People who live in the extremes that are being referred to here and in the minority and the majority just need schooled and reminded to use common sense. Not sure where all this will end up but the folks with the biggest financial stake in this are the manufacturers. Might want to see what their take is on this. I have had lots of customers from Canada over the years and would still have them if I shipped internationally anymore.

To a degree Michael going to have to allow some of these kinds of conversations on this subject matter as long as it doesn't get obnoxious or loud.

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What is wrong with these politicians? Why they got such beef with Airguns? I thought they hate China but want to be China themselves!
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100% all for votes in my opinion, the left's largest voting base is in our major cities where populations are dense. Gun crime in these cities would seem out of control due to the news media and the glorification of anything gun related in the news. The city voters hear "Less guns, will result in less gun violence", but little do they know here in Canada, the gun violence isn't created by legal gun owners. The violence is generally caused by gangs fighting each other, and their guns are smuggled across the border from the USA. Criminals don't follow laws, so these laws will do nothing to actually curb the violence.
 
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What is wrong with these politicians? Why they got such beef with Airguns? I thought they hate China but want to be China themselves!
Click to expand...

100% all for votes in my opinion, the left's largest voting base is in our major cities where populations are dense. Gun crime in these cities would seem out of control due to the news media and the glorification of anything gun related in the news. The city voters hear "Less guns, will result in less gun violence", but little do they know here in Canada, the gun violence isn't created by legal gun owners. The violence is generally caused by gangs fighting each other, and their guns are smuggled across the border from the USA. Criminals don't follow laws, so these laws will do nothing to actually curb the violence.
Click to expand...


Better believe criminals don't follow the laws. Especially the criminals who WRITE the criminal laws.
 
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Education on guns is indeed needed among the anti-gun general population. And many of those folks will listen to a well-reasoned pro-gun position. The problem is politics. The liberals in Washington and the NRA lobby both have tunnel vision, and each is intent only on destroying the other. And a lot of money is floating around on both sides, especially within the NRA, which exacerbates the problem. 
 
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Reason dictates there should be some compromise. It’s seems the most vocal segment of the pro gun camp is unwilling to even consider that. And I understand the logic of give an inch and they will take a yard. BUT there is extreme pressure being placed on the law makers to find solutions and if the pro gun camp refused any negations my fear is that tactic will lead to an even slippery slope in the direction we don’t want to go. I don’t think the NRA is doing us much good . In fact it seems the NRA has deteriorated into a rather corrupt entity in its own right.


My solution. I really don’t have much to offer and I’m not sure what might work but what’s happening doesn’t seem to be going all that well. 
Personally I think we make gun ownership too easy. But I will admit I have no idea of how to affectively and fairly change that.
Ive also told my anti gun friends that more legislation isn’t going to change a thing unless the term confiscation appears in it. AND I’ve said if at anytime it does and they think they have a problem now wait until that happens. Essentially there are so many guns out there now it’s not going to change . Too little to late. I end my presentation with “ there are some problems for which there truly are no solutions ( especially solutions that lawyers and politicians can solve) and it’s my opinion that this is one of them. We are all going to have to accept gun violence as a part of our society” I think most of my friends see both why I enjoy shooting and they realize I’m not a gun NUT . I also believe many agree with my conclusion that it’s not going to be solved in the short term if ever. Are there going to be laws passed restricting fire arms ? Probably but I don’t see them as being affective for either side. Let’s say they pass some type of further restrictive assault weapons ban. We know it’s not going to change a thing and it would be impossible to enforce. The thing that’s going to over time affect guns the most is cost and lack of interest. Plus population growth and limited places to shoot. People in the USA will always have hand guns ( legally or not) and will continue to kill each other with them. You can’t cure that and certainly not with legislation 
 
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I'll disagree with the overall criticism of the NRA. I'm not their biggest fan and they do have "organizational" problems that I don't like. I've had to be a member for a long time because it is required by much local range. But the goals of the membership I do support-the opposition to the "other side" whom I believe would ban gun ownership with the stroke of their pen today if possible. Paranoia on my part? Possibly. But more and more gradual restrictions, along with demographic and generational changes within the country, could ultimately lead to success of that "other side" view. As others have noted, consider Australia if you believe otherwise. Certainly just one person's opinion, much like all the others.
 
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I think there is more agreement then is recognized. As far as restriction in other counties do we really know what goes on? My guess is things are not as tight as we might think they are. When I shot competitively we had a few fellows from other countries. For the most part they had access to the guns they wanted. Granted it was much more difficult but possible. A little like our laws to get full auto guns.
 
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The NRA is the oldest continuously operating civil rights group in the USA - no matter what Wiki says. The NRA is the most successful organization opposed to poor gun control measures. Without the NRA the right to keep and bear arms, ccw, etc. would have been lost long ago; it's simple no NRA no guns. Ask yourselves, "What is more important, unity or diversity?"...the NRA has a legal staff who fight for our rights every day and should get the respect and gratitude they deserve.
 
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Reason dictates there should be some compromise. It’s seems the most vocal segment of the pro gun camp is unwilling to even consider that. And I understand the logic of give an inch and they will take a yard. BUT there is extreme pressure being placed on the law makers to find solutions and if the pro gun camp refused any negations my fear is that tactic will lead to an even slippery slope in the direction we don’t want to go. I don’t think the NRA is doing us much good . In fact it seems the NRA has deteriorated into a rather corrupt entity in its own right.
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Have you ever asked why, when it comes to our collective civil liberties, "compromise" always involves giving up some, or all of the freedom to make a choice for yourself? All for the briefly lived, false promise of increased safety.




 
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One argument Canadian shooters might have could be the UK example. We lost firearms 20 years ago but were allowed Airguns as the trade off..so sport shooting could be continued. Once both sides had accepted this, the growth of FT, HFT was allowed to grow and grow.

12 ftlbs and 6ftlbs for pistols may seem low to American shooters but most Springer air rifles actually operate at their best at about 11 ftlbs, while for pistols, 6ftlbs is quite a holy grail that few, springer models can achieve. Pests can be taken upto 50 yards ish, but of course we dont have any big critters like you guys ...mainly Squirrel (over run) Rabbit and rats.....so this part of my argument might seem a bit lame.

12 ftlbs means we can have a typ .177 dome do about 860 fps for a rifle, and approx 580 fps for a pistol. To have anymore control over us than this is just plain stupid and prevents a huge amount of revenue for the government and industry, not to mention a massive growth in pest species.


 
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What is wrong with these politicians? Why they got such beef with Airguns? I thought they hate China but want to be China themselves!
Click to expand...

100% all for votes in my opinion, the left's largest voting base is in our major cities where populations are dense. Gun crime in these cities would seem out of control due to the news media and the glorification of anything gun related in the news. The city voters hear "Less guns, will result in less gun violence", but little do they know here in Canada, the gun violence isn't created by legal gun owners. The violence is generally caused by gangs fighting each other, and their guns are smuggled across the border from the USA. Criminals don't follow laws, so these laws will do nothing to actually curb the violence.
Click to expand...


Better believe criminals don't follow the laws. Especially the criminals who WRITE the criminal laws.
Click to expand...

It is hard to find a man or woman who has not committed at least one crime in their lives. Most people are hypocrites in this regard, especially those supposedly on the side of the law.
 
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