Projectile test for hunting.

[Recarga]

Forgive me if this has been asked before I did my research and couldn’t really find what I was looking for.

As we all know the advertisement of foot pounds of energy for a giving caliber can be exaggerated by manipulation of faster lighter projectiles and at the muzzle.

Like for example a 50 gr 30 cal pellet gives 93 Ft-lb at the muzzle but at 100 yards it lost almost half of it’s starting energy.

My question is not about projectiles or calibers but actual testing media an average person can utilize for testing.

Squirrel 🐿 pretty much we all know it’s going down.

But what about

Head shot on a Turkey or hog at 100 yards.

What should I use as a testing?
1/4, 1/2,5/8 wood + something behind?
Food can ?
All of this at 100 yards

 

[dizzums]

i dunno, i can tell you a plain no nonsense roundnose works better than anything .. a good indicator of the impact effect albeit not perfect, but good, is a heavy green pinecone .. youll see a ballpark of what you would nailing a squirrel at say 80, shock, energy transfer, penetration, 'wound effect' etc ..

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

A brain shot at 100 yards with a projectile going -/+ 900fps is far from ideal.

 

[Recarga]

A brain shot at 100 yards with a projectile going -/+ 900fps is far from ideal.

The reason for my question is because of the following test I did with my 22,25& 30 all this velocities were confirmed.
I’m going on a hunt and have meaning to do this test. As you can see the results are a little different from what we’re told

Check how much the 30cal at 100 yards do.
The 22 pellets at least for my rifle are completely out of the question.

Sorry I like spreadsheets.
Yellow = 1st choice
Grey = 2nd
Brown =3rd
Red = worst
At this point the 25 and 22 are winning due to the size of the rifle and performance just need to do an actual test.

 

[N2 Shooter]

The reason for my question is because of the following test I did with my 22,25& 30 all this velocities were confirmed.
I’m going on a hunt and have meaning to do this test. As you can see the results are a little different from what we’re told

Check how much the 30cal at 100 yards do.
The 22 pellets at least for my rifle are completely out of the question.

Sorry I like spreadsheets.
Yellow = 1st choice
Grey = 2nd
Brown =3rd
Red = worst
At this point the 25 and 22 are winning due to the size of the rifle and performance just need to do an actual test. View attachment 296592View attachment 296593

This is just a testament to the energy retention of a round with higher ballistic coefficient, more than the failure of the .30 cal JSB Exact 50 gr.

But, it gets more complicated than that.

You are conflating the trajectory of the projectile with the round's effectiveness in your spreadsheet, but a heavier round with a better Ballistic Coefficient will have more energy on target at distance and penetrate deeper, depending on the design of the projectile.

I know this test I performed is at a relatively close distance, but knowing slugs lose significantly less velocity than pellets at distance because of higher ballistic coefficient tells you what you can expect.

For instance, the 142gr slug starts off a fair bit slower than the 110gr slug, but at 100 yards, the 142gr slugs velocity surpasses the 110 gr slug because of better Ballistic Coefficient. Additionally, look at the penetration difference at 14 yards between the projectiles. Just know this, all the projectiles in this test will kill a hog at 150 yards with a head shot.

I use FX Hybrid Slugs in my Maverick VP .30 cal, and they perform very well at 100 yards. Even though they are lighter than the NSA slugs, they have a much better BC than the JSB Exacts. All these rounds will inflict terminal performance on game with heart lung shots. But there is another thing to consider in projectile design like the Hybrid Slugs. Do not confuse terminal performance with knock down power. In my video above, the heavier slugs zipped clean through all of the groundhogs, and the groundhogs all took off running. But when the expansion of the Predator Polymags forced the game to absorb the energy, while the projectile did not make a full passthrough, yet penetrated enough to damage organs and cause blood loss.

This is simply physics doing what physics does! Think about it like this. A projectile traveling 930 fps is also traveling 634 mph. If that projectile expands so that it didn't make a full passthrough, the impact will send a massive shock through the body, incapacitating the respiratory and nervous system, while the prey dies from organ damage and blood loss. If the projectile just zips right through, the game will still suffer blood loss and organ damage, but not the debilitating effects that can lead to incapacitation.

 

[dgeesaman]

It’s pretty hard to cheat muzzle energy using a light pellet. Velocity data is where the cheating happens.

As for retained energy and real world ballistic coefficient, ymwv. I posted some data last week where the JSB 44.75s consistently outperformed on BC compared to book values, but various slugs underperformed. I don’t think either are misadvertised, just that the barrel and tune matters a lot with delivering good energy down range.

 

[Recarga]

On my way to a hunt I’m limited to a smaller rifle as my primary weapon is a Recurve, so I’m packing light, the 30 cal is out of the question.

I’ll be looking for your help on my quest
So far the 25 cal is winning

I have a FX Impact in 25
And a trusty 22 cal Cricket

 

[N2 Shooter]

On my way to a hunt I’m limited to a smaller rifle as my primary weapon is a Recurve, so I’m packing light, the 30 cal is out of the question.

I’ll be looking for your help on my quest
So far the 25 cal is winning

You can do similar testing with the Clear Ballistics Gel block for relatively cheap.

 

[sasquatch]

Shooting something that mimics body tissue seems useful. It doesn't simulate bones/skulls but gel can be home made and it wouldn't be impossible to get something to mimic bones/skulls.

I'm with post above. Use a gel perhaps.

 

[Recarga]

This is just a testament to the energy retention of a round with higher ballistic coefficient, more than the failure of the .30 cal JSB Exact 50 gr.

But, it gets more complicated than that.

You are conflating the trajectory of the projectile with the round's effectiveness in your spreadsheet, but a heavier round with a better Ballistic Coefficient will have more energy on target at distance and penetrate deeper, depending on the design of the projectile.

I know this test I performed is at a relatively close distance, but knowing slugs lose significantly less velocity than pellets at distance because of higher ballistic coefficient tells you what you can expect.

For instance, the 142gr slug starts off a fair bit slower than the 110gr slug, but at 100 yards, the 142gr slugs velocity surpasses the 110 gr slug because of better Ballistic Coefficient. Additionally, look at the penetration difference at 14 yards between the projectiles. Just know this, all the projectiles in this test will kill a hog at 150 yards with a head shot.

I use FX Hybrid Slugs in my Maverick VP .30 cal, and they perform very well at 100 yards. Even though they are lighter than the NSA slugs, they have a much better BC than the JSB Exacts. All these rounds will inflict terminal performance on game with heart lung shots. But there is another thing to consider in projectile design like the Hybrid Slugs. Do not confuse terminal performance with knock down power. In my video above, the heavier slugs zipped clean through all of the groundhogs, and the groundhogs all took off running. But when the expansion of the Predator Polymags forced the game to absorb the energy, while the projectile did not make a full passthrough, yet penetrated enough to damage organs and cause blood loss.

This is simply physics doing what physics does! Think about it like this. S projectile traveling 930 fps is also traveling 634 mph. If that projectile expands so that it didn't make a full passthrough, the impact will send a massive shock through the body, incapacitating the respiratory and nervous system, while the prey dies from organ damage and blood loss. If the projectile just zips right through, the game will still suffer blood loss and organ damage, but not the debilitating effects that can lead to incapacitation.

That’s a great video.
And really falls back to my hunting powder bullets that I reload for my rifles.
I always look for a bullet that gives me the outmost terminal performance in the target. I always tell my friends with those super hard copper bullets that we’re not hunting dinosaurs. So I am always helping tracking deer and my deer with my reloads are dead within inches where they’re shot.

Great video

 

[Recarga]

Shooting something that mimics body tissue seems useful. It doesn't simulate bones/skulls but gel can be home made and it wouldn't be impossible to get something to mimic bones/skulls.

I'm with post above. Use a gel perhaps.

So do you suggest maybe combining gel with something to simulate or skull

Now that’s a good idea

 

[sasquatch]

Pretty much for hog head shots or something similar. On a turkey, probably overkill

 

[N2 Shooter]

That’s a great video.
And really falls back to my hunting powder bullets that I reload for my rifles.
I always look for a bullet that gives me the outmost terminal performance in the target. I always tell my friends with those super hard copper bullets that we’re not hunting dinosaurs. So I am always helping tracking deer and my deer with my reloads are dead within inches where they’re shot.

Great video

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I have to melt down the Ballistics Gel again and redo the test with my Maverick VP .30cal. Currently I'm head over heels in love with the Hybrid Slugs. Here is a photo of a slug recovered after a full passthrough on a groundhog. Here is a video of the shoot.

The slug expands better than any I've ever shot!
Left to right: Fx Hybrid Slug .30cal, Recovered Hybrid Slug .30cal, FX Hybrid Slug .357cal for reference.

 

[JimD]

For a hog, I would want to see penetration through 3/4 MDF or Plywood at the maximum range you want to shoot. For you I guess that is 100 yards. My 25 Avenger shooting 25.4 grain FX at 930 fps will go through 3/4 plywood at short range but not at 100 yards. You will probably need to use 33.95 grain pellets or similar weight slugs. I don't think the size of the hole matters much on a brain shot. But heavier projectiles penetrate further for a given caliber. A 25.4 grain 22 caliber pellet might also give you enough penetration.

Turkeys have much smaller more delicate heads. I shot one out of a tree on a shooting preserve with 6 shot once. I would think penetration through 1/2 inch plywood would be plenty for a turkey.

I use wet magazines to test penetration in muscle tissue. But for head shots, I think getting through the skull is the big deal and it is harder than muscle.

 

[Recarga]

Thank

For a hog, I would want to see penetration through 3/4 MDF or Plywood at the maximum range you want to shoot. For you I guess that is 100 yards. My 25 Avenger shooting 25.4 grain FX at 930 fps will go through 3/4 plywood at short range but not at 100 yards. You will probably need to use 33.95 grain pellets or similar weight slugs. I don't think the size of the hole matters much on a brain shot. But heavier projectiles penetrate further for a given caliber. A 25.4 grain 22 caliber pellet might also give you enough penetration.

Turkeys have much smaller more delicate heads. I shot one out of a tree on a shooting preserve with 6 shot once. I would think penetration through 1/2 inch plywood would be plenty for a turkey.

I use wet magazines to test penetration in muscle tissue. But for head shots, I think getting through the skull is the big deal and it is harder than muscle.

Thank you yes that’s a good advice.

I was also told I can of spam makes a good test for a 100 yards.

 

[moodyblues]

IMO penetration is king when talking airguns. The shock is just to unreliable to count on it to kill the animal.
To me the best test is plywood or bone in front of wet newspaper. You’re never going to simulate an animal body, it’s got everything from bone to muscle to pretty much open space. The newspaper is harder to penetrate than flesh, so see what it can do and I don’t try to push it further then it can Reliably kill.

Beau

 

[jwrabbit123]

guys in UK hunt pretty long range on small game with 12fpe , most of us using overkill but what ever gets job done is best . I know it is not FPE or speed but shot placement that matters so , best thing is tune gun to hit where you aim , and this is KING
LOU

 

[lbc_PSI]

If you want to find out how a given projectile expands at a given distance, it is crazy simple with a number of the externally adjustable air guns.

Use Strelok or Charigun to determine the FPS your projectile will be traveling at X distance..say 100yds.

Adjust the airgun you're using to push the projectile at 5yds to what the expected 100yd velocity would be and place the ballistic gel at 5yd.

Using the expected velocity for the 100yd distance at 5yds will give you the exact expansion the projectile will have at the long distance.

And FWIW, don't try making a 100yd head shot on live game. Regardless of how good you are, there is no way you could guarantee hitting a 1.5" circle..on a moving..figeting..live animal..under hunting conditions. The astronomical chances of having a bad outcome for the animal are just too high to justify doing this. JMNSHO

 

[ghoststalker]

I don't know why people always shoot gelatin at close range, when the question is how the " projectiles " are going to react at 100 yards or what ever. There's going to be a huge difference. I just don't under stand it.

 

[JungleShooter]

If you want to find out how a given projectile expands at a given distance, it is crazy simple with a number of the externally adjustable air guns.

Use Strelok or Charigun to determine the FPS your projectile will be traveling at X distance..say 100yds.

Adjust the airgun you're using to push the projectile at 5yds to what the expected 100yd velocity would be and place the ballistic gel at 5yd.

Using the expected velocity for the 100yd distance at 5yds will give you the exact expansion the projectile will have at the long distance.

And FWIW, don't try making a 100yd head shot on live game. Regardless of how good you are, there is no way you could guarantee hitting a 1.5" circle..on a moving..figeting..live animal..under hunting conditions. The astronomical chances of having a bad outcome for the animal are just too high to justify doing this. JMNSHO

Those are some great ideas for expansion tests — calculate the impact velocity, dial down the gun (or use a weaker gun) — and shoot at ballistic gel from up close.

️Or even better: shoot at a volunteer quarry's corpse from up close at the calculated impact velocity.

Matthias