PROD vs Bullpup

Diana printed its name on the P15 and called it Skyhawk for a few years.

The stock is a gorgeous Minelli, but it adds many useless inches of OAL to a bullpup — a gun that was created to be SHORT.....

Today I read that the internals of the P35 are the same as the P15, but with a forward cocking lever.

Matthias
 
We must have read the same article about the P15 and P35. There is not much information on the Stoeger XM-1 let alone the new Stoeger bullpup. If Stoeger had Snowpeak build to a higher quality to solve the quality control issues Snowpeak is known for Stoegers bullpup could be real competitor. In my mind between Chinese made vs Turkish made I think Turkey has the advantage overall. I’m still between a Flashpup or a Prod but Kral and Chinese bullpups are still in the mix. 
 
Well, I trusted the Diana brand name, that they would do what you hope Stoeger would do. And that Diana would offer support (spare parts, all that stuff that an established brand name from Germany is known for).





I find myself sold down the river.... 😖

If you want to share my chains, go ahead and click the Place-in-Cart button.....

I'll be waiting for you with the link to the Huma regulator webpage and the phone number of a trusted gunsmith for your barrel replacement. I'll top it off with a complete o-ring list and a prescription to self-medicate your upcoming ulcers. 🤣 



Fear not. At AGN we've got you covered.

Matthias
 
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Yeah and the stock adapter for the Prod for me is entirely unusable, I have two of them in my parts drawer I should sell. The unit that Gepeto on gta makes is said to be entirely rock solid, just hard to find used. I have the Exclusive side lever breech, a gun show find that I think is a older gepeto adapter, perhaps not what he makes these days, a Bluefork design trigger group AR Houge grip, Marmot Milicia hammer forged barrel that ends in a AR flash hider and is enclosed in a Modded Ar tube forearm.



The tube and valve are replacements but OEM.



My trouble with my Prod is that it eats tp orings and the barrel oring often wears out or just blows out. 


I had been sealing that exclusive breech with rigid tube and Hills square breech orings, but it sends them through the transfer port and out the barrel, I found one in a bullet hole recently. When I replace that oring, I find the breech oring hanging on the pellet probe. All this with a sub 10 fpe tune and Bstaley mod.



My barrel was the last one Jim Gaska made and I think the oring groove is not deep enough, coupled with the EXclusive side lever breech pellet probe being a few thousands under. A new and larger pellet probe and a deeper oring groove would fix things, but do not know who to send it to. I recently sealed the tp with a soft plastic refrigerator tube cut a thousands over, not shot it much since then.



The Skyhawk was a 45 fpe gun but the Huma went tits up and I could never reseal the pressure tube although two other smiths did with no problem at all, which indicates my skills these days. I recently gave the plenum to Jungleshooter but have not heard if he got it up and running.
The Skyhawk has that lovely stock and a LW poly choke barrel.



Both are stunningly accurate, troublematic and tuned to be sheet rock guns, meaning when you get that inevitable ldc pellet clip you can pull the pellet out of the Sheetrock. Both guns are inside shooters and the Sheetrock tune is around 350 to 400 fps and I shoot at ten yards.



The most accurate of the two is the one that is actually up and shooting at any given time, like British Leland cars you probably need two of each to have one running.



The NPO3 seems to have everything my Prod has but also has more power and a Kral side lever. I did not know about the stock, but it seems there are at least a few variations. A 25 with a amputated choke to shoot my cast bullets would be great.



The original prod Bullpup stock kit he made was a neat little light wooden stock, so short you could easily shoot your finger tips.



Roachcreek


 
My Prod has not given me any trouble. I got it in May of 2020 - so almost 2 years ago. I retuned it's Bstaley tune yesterday and shot groups from 1/8th to 1/2 at 25 yards - most were at the small end of this range. I've replaced no O-rings. The only parts I;ve changed is the transfer port and the hammer spring - for the re-tune.

I've replaced several O-rings on my P35. The first was the O-ring for the pellet pusher inside the barrel. That was my fault, I damaged it trying to clean it. Next I replaced the O-ring behind the gauge and the one at the front of the nut it mounts in when I took it apart to change the regulator setting. I tried just putting it back together but it leaked. I did not know which O-ring so I replaced both. Then less than a week ago, I went to fill it and it was leaking again. Seemed to be the same area of the gun so I took it apart and replaced the O-ring under the gauge and the smaller one on a screw in the nut. I did not replace the big one on the nut. I put it together and it doesn't leak now.

I think generally my P35 is a well made gun. But fit and finish are what you reasonably should expect for it's price range. Much less use of plastic than my Avenger but the inside of the trigger block (steel) was crudely machined. There doesn't seem to be a shoulder for the big nut on the air tube. It works fine just screwing it in fully but stopping before it goes so far you wouldn't be able to get the probe in but I think it should have a shoulder. The O-rings on the air tube may be a weak link but they aren't hard to change and mine might still be working if I had not go into the gun to change the regulator setting.

I think you have to buy the P15 and P35 from Krale. I found their service to be very good, I had the gun in much less than a week. From other members of the Artemis/Snow Peak owners group on Facebook I understand it is possible to order parts from SPA but I haven't had any success so far - haven't needed anything bad enough to be persistent. It definitely is not like ordering parts from Crosman.
 
I got to KTP today to shoulder a bullpup. They had the wood Flashpup and another Hatsan bullpup that was real heavy but I don’t remember the name. The Flashpup felt very much like a pistol carbine to my surprise. A wood stock like the Flashpup has on a Prod would be awesome. It was apparent that the Flashpup is designed for a scope by the comb. The trigger was locked so I couldn’t get a feel for the trigger but the location was good. I liked the bullpup feel compared to a Flash QE. They had the Avenger but not a Avenger bullpup to compare the feel. Bullpups are a style I have never considered before thinking they are too action arms based to actually be an accurate shooter. After today I’m not sure that’s an accurate assumption. Obvious advantages are longer barrel and bigger air tube over a pistol. Possible negative is the trigger. I’m already shooting a gun with a Prod trigger group and before that a Challenger trigger group. Tough triggers to match in an inexpensive gun. So to me the question is how bad is bullpup trigger and can I deal with it? I’m ok with Turkish made in that I own CZ/Huglu SxS shotguns and they have been outstanding hunters. I could put a Challenger trigger and a Boyd’s stock on a Prod but that is a $700 gun which moves to another entirely different category of guns . As they say “The plot thickens “.

Kittery Trading Post? Hello neighbor.