Problems with Edgun r5m .25 standard

One of my friends bought edgun r5m standard in .25 with high expectations.

It neither shoots accurately beyond 50 yards nor cocks and indexes smoothly.

We have tried 25 grain and 34 grain jsb pellets but nothing works good.

With 34 grain pellets the cocking and indexing gets even worse.

If we increase hst it also cast negative effect.

The owner has tried to contact Ed in his live sessions but could not find any solution.

He can neither sell it for good money nor he can use it.

The detailed guidance will be helpful.

I have myself tried it with fully seated pellets but I also feel that for .25 caliber the design of the gun is not supportive.

Regards,

Bhaur
 
There are many posts on this issue, it is fairly common. I've had two Eddy R5M in .25, a standard and a long, and both had cocking and indexing issues, plus neither were very accurate. Not sure how to fix it, since the indexing is not adjustable without a good machine shop. I'd recommend getting a single shot tray from CARM and using it as a single shot loader. It MIGHT be made accurate with some barrel work... I got mine to where they shot the 25.4 grain JSB Kings fairly well, but the Heavies never shot well in either gun. It'll never be as accurate as a Cricket, Vulcan/Uragan, or Taipan...
 
Here are some things i would try if i had the problems you described. Please refer to the Edgun PDF (attached below) for part numbers.

Accuracy issues (assuming your pellet speeds are appropriate and you're not overpowering or distorting them)

  • Ensure the gap between the barrel shroud and reservoir is even and there is no contact at the end of the shroud and and fill port cover. If this happens, then ensure the wedge (22) that tightens the reservoir to the firing mechanism (3) is all the way up and the retaining bolt is quite tight.
  • Ensure the firing mechanism block retaining screw (19) is quite tight
  • Check the torque on the barrel retention nut (13). It should be very tight
  • Check to make sure the barrel is screwed in fully (hand tight is OK) into the transfer port

Unfortunately, Edgun does not have any specifics for the torque numbers... So i use the good old German technique - Good'n Tight :)

Cocking issues

  • Use good amount of high quality synthetic grease like the BREAKTHROUGH CLEAN TECHNOLOGIES - Battle Born Grease (Amazon it)
  • If that doesnt help, use a liberal amount of polishing compound (i used Flitz) to cycle the action A LOT and smooth it out. This was advice i got from Edgun directly. It took me a while to take care of polishing all the parts, but the friction on the cocking lever was reduced at least in half, in combination with the Battle Born Grease. Dont use Dremmel on fitted parts of the action. Just dry cycle it a lot. On other parts, feel free to use a Dremmel tool on a low setting. Polish but DO NOT REMOVE material.

download.png
View attachment R5M 6.35.1628707276.PDF



 
It neither shoots accurately beyond 50 yards nor cocks and indexes smoothly. With 34 grain pellets the cocking and indexing gets even worse.

If it doesn't index properly, then you could be shaving part of the pellet as you push the pellet through the mis-aligned magazine into the chamber. Obviously, if the loading process damages the pellet, it won't be accurate.

We have tried 25 grain and 34 grain jsb pellets but nothing works good. If we increase hst it also cast negative effect.

It's possible the R5M you have has an Alfa Precision instead of a Lothar Walther barrel. Cannot speak to the quality of the AP barrels. I have an R5.30 and a Lelya2.0..the Lelya is basically a shorter version of the R5M. My R5 .30 has the LW barrel, but I'm not sure which the Lelya .22 has. Both are very accurate and not pellet picky..but..both are tuned to shoot at ~885fps. They are capable of higher velocity..but obviously the pellets have a "sweet spot"...push them too fast and groups open up.

The detailed guidance will be helpful.

You might try e-mailing Ed to see if you can determine which brand of barrel your R5M has. I'm sure if you give him the gun serial number he could tell you

I have myself tried it with fully seated pellets but I also feel that for .25 caliber the design of the gun is not supportive.

+1 on what CenterCut said on trying a CARM single shot tray..that would at least eliminate a feed-alignment issue. There is also a AEAC YouTube full review on the R5M..there may be some tips that address the feed, accuracy, or barrel issues.


 
I hate to say this, and its certainly nothing against AEAC (he tests what he receives), but if you think that R5M that Steve tested was straight out of the box from Russia, I've got some swamp land in Florida or a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...


LOL...does the Florida swamp land have iguanas? I might be interested ;-)

One thing I have noticed with the Lelya and CARM..if I don't pull the charging handle ALL the way rearward, the pellet probe is in the way and the CARM wont open. I know..I know..I need to learn how to cock my Leyla..but, I'd call this a design flaw in the cocking mechanism..(sorry Ed)..as you shouldn't be allowed to "short-cycle" when trying to cock. JMO.
 
Can't speak to .25s as I have seen a few posts with them having issues with cocking and accuracy issues. I've had 2 R5M .22s and a .177 and never an issue with cocking or accuracy at all. I think it's a .25 problem honestly as it has a different number of pellets in the mag compared to .22 and .177.

This post is a relief, I might have one in .22 my way and I was quite concerned after reading Mike's post
 
The accuracy thing is on a rifle by rifle, barrel by barrel basis. Some are great, some are good, some are so-so. My experience having owned 6 matadors is they've all been in the great to good category, most in the "good" category. I've had 6 Matadors over the years (.22 R2.5, .22 R3, .25 R3, .22 R3M, .25 R3M, .25 R5M) and all have been accurate-- but some more so than others. My .22 R3 was the most accurate of all of them followed closely by the .25 R3. That being said, each rifle required tuning for regulator pressure and velocity to find where they were the most accurate with a given pellet.

You say you have a .25... what's the regulator pressure set at, and what's the velocity plateau if you increase the hammer spring tension? Both my .25 R3, .25 R3M, and .25 R5M were most accurate with 25.4gr JSBs at about 870-890 fps with the hammer spring set about 15fps under the velocity peak for a given regulator pressure.

With the .25 R5M I'm running 34gr pellets. With Ed's stock plenum this requires too much regulator pressure and too much hammer spring tension in my opinion which resulted in a very stiff cocking action and fewer shots per fill. Running the 34s in my opinion really requires the larger huma power plenum and regulator; with the 34gr JSBs the Huma plenum and regulator allows you to achieve the same velocity as the stock regulator and plenum with about 25 bar less regulator pressure, which means you can also decrease the hammer spring tension and the decreased hammer spring tension reduces the cocking effort.

I will agree the cocking effort on the R5M is a bit on the hard side and can be clunky. Unfortunately it will never be fingertip light or totally smooth, this is a drawback of the mechanical magazine indexing combined with the straight pull action which doesn't give you any mechanical advantage to help cock the hammer, unlike a sidelever action which uses the mechanical advantage of the levers to decrease the cocking effort.

As far as magazine indexing, on the first batch of R3M's Ed used the same magazine indexing lever for the .22 and .25 which was a problem, because the .22 uses a 10 shot magazine where the .25 is a 9 shot magazine, so the early .25 R3Ms would not index the magazine fully with the .22 indexing lever installed. I had to TIG weld up the indexing lever on my .25 R3M and rework it so it would index properly. This issue was fixed on later production batches of the R3M and is also fixed on the R5M. My .25 R5M indexes properly. Maybe your .25 R5M accidentally had a .22 or .177 indexing lever installed which would mean the 9 shot .25 magazine will not fully rotate every time you cock the rifle.

The R5M does need a firm and deliberate hand when cocking, the handles need to be pulled firmly all the way to the rear to fully index the magazine. If you don't pull the lever firmly all the way until it stops, the magazine will not fully rotate and it will either stop the bolt when pushing the cocking lever back forward or the probe will "bump" the magazine into alignment when pushing the bolt forward and shave the pellet skirt as it enters the breech which hurts accuracy.
 
R5M is a nice and accurate gun but the .22 I have has the clunkiest cocking I've ever seen on an Airgun. Have to forcefully push forward and back even when grease is applied. I think it's just a downside to the design. With enough use I've learned to live with it. I really do like being able to cock the gun from either side depending on my shooting position.
 
The accuracy thing is on a rifle by rifle, barrel by barrel basis. Some are great, some are good, some are so-so. My experience having owned 6 matadors is they've all been in the great to good category, most in the "good" category. I've had 6 Matadors over the years (.22 R2.5, .22 R3, .25 R3, .22 R3M, .25 R3M, .25 R5M) and all have been accurate-- but some more so than others. My .22 R3 was the most accurate of all of them followed closely by the .25 R3M. That being said, each rifle required tuning for regulator pressure and velocity to find where they were the most accurate with a given pellet.

You say you have a .25... what's the regulator pressure set at, and what's the velocity plateau if you increase the hammer spring tension? Both my .25 R3, .25 R3M, and .25 R5M were most accurate with 25.4gr JSBs at about 870-890 fps with the hammer spring set about 15fps under the velocity peak for a given regulator pressure.

With the .25 R5M I'm running 34gr pellets. With Ed's stock plenum this required too much regulator pressure and too much hammer spring tension in my opinion which resulted in a very stiff cocking action and fewer shots per fill. Running the 34s in my opinion really requires the larger huma power plenum and regulator; with the 34gr JSBs the Huma plenum and regulator allows you to achieve the same velocity as the stock regulator and plenum with about 25 bar less regulator pressure, which means you can also decrease the hammer spring tension and the decreased hammer spring tension reduces the cocking effort.

I will agree the cocking effort on the R5M is a bit on the hard side and can be clunky. Unfortunately it will never be fingertip light or totally with, this is a drawback of the mechanical magazine indexing combined with the straight pull action which doesn't give you any mechanical advantage unlike a sidelever action which uses the mechanical advantage of the levers to decrease the cocking effort.

As far as magazine indexing, on the first batch of R3M's Ed used the same magazine indexing lever for the .22 and .25 which was a problem, because the .22 uses a 10 shot magazine where the .25 is a 9 shot magazine, so the early .25 R3Ms would not index the magazine fully with the .22 indexing lever installed. I had to TIG weld up the indexing lever on my .25 R3M and rework it so it would index properly. This issue was fixed on later production batches of the R3M and is also fixed on the R5M. My .25 R5M indexes properly. Maybe your .25 R5M accidentally had a .22 or .177 indexing lever installed which would mean the 9 shot .25 magazine will not index fully every time you cock the rifle.

The R5M does need a firm and deliberate hand when cocking, the handles need to be pulled firmly all the way to the rear to fully index the magazine. If you don't pull the lever firmly all the way until it stops, the magazine will not fully rotate and it will either stop the bolt when pushing the cocking lever back forward or the probe will "bump" the magazine into alignment when pushing the bolt forward and shave the pellet skirt as it enters the breech which hurts accuracy.

Thanks Kiba,

I understand a bit of fine tuning process and have done all like backing off the hst from the peak fps a bit. Also tested on various fps.

I understand that by adding a bigger plenum and reducing reg pressure and reducing hst may be helpful.

But all that is other than OEM things.

On a side note I can install a better barrel for better accuracy and modify the cocking mechanism for ease of cocking.

But if all that I have to do then why I have spent $1900 for this gun!!!

I changed the barrel in fx impact and RAW but that was not due to any issues rather to get other benefits of other barrel makes.

RAW with its polygonal barrel is excellent by all means and to me even Impact is great although its a complicated gun.

I think I have explained my point.

To me the major issue is with R5M .25 model.

Bhaur
 
I invite anyone to my home in Lebanon, Tennessee to shoot My Lelya 2.0s. I have one in .177 and one in .25. Shoot them and make up your own mind. My range is 0-120 yards. The .177 is not going anywhere, but the .25 is actually posted in classifieds. Don’t need to sell it, but I would to fund an optic that is burning a hole in my wish list😂😂😂
 
...Maybe your .25 R5M accidentally had a .22 or .177 indexing lever installed which would mean the 9 shot .25 magazine will not fully rotate every time you cock the rifle.

The R5M does need a firm and deliberate hand when cocking, the handles need to be pulled firmly all the way to the rear to fully index the magazine. If you don't pull the lever firmly all the way until it stops, the magazine will not fully rotate and it will either stop the bolt when pushing the cocking lever back forward or the probe will "bump" the magazine into alignment when pushing the bolt forward and shave the pellet skirt as it enters the breech which hurts accuracy.

The "Lever" part for the .25 and the .22&.177 as kiba points out are different..which probably explains why .22&.177 don't tend to have the same issue as the .25..

Lever #12 on the drawing

KL100401 .25

KL100404 .22 & .177

Lever-25vs22and177.1628791836.png


I have noticed when using the CARM on my .22 Lelya that the only time the CARM won't open is when I cock then tip the gun forward to vertical before opening the single shot tray. If I cock with the gun in a horizontal shooting position..then open the tray..there is never an issue. If I tip the gun forward vertically after cocking, gravity will allow the cocking mechanism to slide forward just enough for the probe to block the CARM. It's not an issue once you learn the "how".

And just for the record, I really do like my Lelya. :)




 
I am not a tinkerer, or fixer. In my opinion any air rifle that costs close to $2000, and does not shoot perfect, upon recepit, should immediately be returned to the seller for a full refund. The only problem I would have is waiting for the refund to be credited to my account.

This ^^^^ independent of the cost... Any rifle, period