I just discovered that my gas piston break barrel likes the 11.75 grain GTO's! Although it shoots any lead pellets less than 18 grain like crap. They chrony at 870 fps, 3 feet from the muzzle giving me an approximate energy of 17 ft pounds. What can I expect the energy to be at 25-30 yards down range? Will they be as affective a dispatcher as the JSB 18 grain lead ammo?
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Predator GTO's for hunting?
- Thread starter Hammerless
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Sorry for not mentioning that my primary hunting targets are grey squirrel's and snowshoe hare.
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Accuracy is what matters and at 25-30 yards expect about roughly 10fpe of energy given your equipment and pellet used.
You can find out exactly just put out a chrony at 25 yards shoot record speed then move to 30 yards shoot record speed and don't shoot your chrony. Then calculate 11.75 x velocity at 25 yards x velocity at 25 yards ÷ 450240 that will give you exactly what foot pounds.
Do the same and calculate velocity at 30 yards substitute into that formula instead of 25 yards.
You can find out exactly just put out a chrony at 25 yards shoot record speed then move to 30 yards shoot record speed and don't shoot your chrony. Then calculate 11.75 x velocity at 25 yards x velocity at 25 yards ÷ 450240 that will give you exactly what foot pounds.
Do the same and calculate velocity at 30 yards substitute into that formula instead of 25 yards.
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BTW your calculation is off a bit. You're at roughly 20fpe at the muzzle. You may get 10-11fpe at 25-30 yards. Just a guess-timate. I don't have any data on those alloy pellets but you should be more than fine dispatching squirrels at 25 on up to 30 yards with a well placed shot.
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I had a Gentleman here send me some .25's to try. You know who you are and 
THANK YOU so much! In that package was 16.54 grain .25 GTO's. I never would have thought of trying these. There's now JSB 16.20 pellets in .177. So I was dubious to say the least.
Well let me tell you what I have found out.
My John Thomas fully tuned/buttoned RWS 52 .25 can put them under a dime at 60 yards. H&N FTT 20.14's go the same. JSB Kings under a nickel out to 100 yards.
Here's what I will say about all GTO's. Excellent accuracy and what I see is they are HARD. Meant to penetrate skulls hard. Just look at this comparison.
At 40 yards from a Sumatra hitting (2) 4'x4' SS 1/8" thick flexible SS sheets as a backstop. The picture is worth 1000 words.
From top to bottom, L to R: A 40 grain Griffin RBT .25 slug going 1005fps from Sumatra on highest setting & a 3K fill.
If It had hit a hard non flexible backstop it would have disintegrated. Solid slugs or pellets over 700fps hitting a wall of retaining blocks just disintegrate into tiny lead shrapnel. I have several fake lawn 12'x6' flipped over, black side up so ammo just flattens & drops. No ricochet at all. Unless you use BB's, or 8.44's at 40 yards from a 6ft/lb gun. Then they can bounce back a little.
(2) JSB .25 25.43 grain Kings at 880fps from FX Elite ST.
(2) JSB 18.13's from one of many .22's
And finally 16.54 GTO .25's hitting at subsonic speeds.
Here's one hitting same flexible SS sheets sent supersonic cracked like a .17HMR from Sumatra on highest setting. Accuracy is not there at supersonic/transonic flight. This only speaks for the hardness of GTO's.
Accuracy is king with an airgun that has no true hydrostatic shock. Big holes in clay are impressive but that's not hydrostatic shock, which is absolutely devastating on tissue.
With any airgun short of big bores and a heart lung shot >300ft/lbs placements of shots should be like that of an Archer. You're depending on a precise hit. You must know your quarries anatomy. So like an Archer, you learn to stalk. You learn to decide on if you should take a shot or not. Do you want to track your dinner for 4-8 hours? Maybe longer, or loose it to predators or infection rendering it uneatable? No. Hunting ethics and ft/lb per lb of game weight aren't something that I would hold as Gospel calculations for a clean kill but they're important for a clean quick kill if you don't make that perfect shot.
I had a Groundhog that I watched get hit at my mailbox by a car. I put him 32 yards out and sent a JSB 18.13 for his ear from a just shy of 30ft/lb Rainstorm. I hit slightly high. That pellet hit his skull and rode under the skin to the other side. I slit the skin and pulled it out. Head was flat but the point is angles play a huge part in relatively low power projectiles. Just like a .17HMR wouldn't be very effective on a Cape Buffalo as those bullets are meant to explode with no pass throughs on fur bearers so as not to ruin the pelt. Hit them with a .22-250 and it guys, skins, turns em inside out if the 55 is still going anywhere between the 4Kfps muzzle velocity and 3Kfps at probably close to 200 yards..
Bottom line is if GTO's are accurate from your rifle then you need to go for heart or brain shots through ears. A soft JSB 18.13 deflected off Groundhogs skull would have been a long horrible death for it. A GTO would have punched straight through his skull into the brain and off like a switch.
Edit: Of course YO is correct as he's no newbie. He was teaching me back in 2011 when I was fairly new and only been into airguns since 08.
But remember that the lighter the pellet the faster it will shed its energy. A GTO is a AWESOME close range penetrator & longer range target pellet for springers but it's main point of fame is penetration at YO's suggestive distances. Remember placement is everything or they will just fly through like a ice pick. They don't dump energy into target unless they hit bone.
THANK YOU so much! In that package was 16.54 grain .25 GTO's. I never would have thought of trying these. There's now JSB 16.20 pellets in .177. So I was dubious to say the least. Well let me tell you what I have found out.
My John Thomas fully tuned/buttoned RWS 52 .25 can put them under a dime at 60 yards. H&N FTT 20.14's go the same. JSB Kings under a nickel out to 100 yards.
Here's what I will say about all GTO's. Excellent accuracy and what I see is they are HARD. Meant to penetrate skulls hard. Just look at this comparison.
At 40 yards from a Sumatra hitting (2) 4'x4' SS 1/8" thick flexible SS sheets as a backstop. The picture is worth 1000 words.
From top to bottom, L to R: A 40 grain Griffin RBT .25 slug going 1005fps from Sumatra on highest setting & a 3K fill.
If It had hit a hard non flexible backstop it would have disintegrated. Solid slugs or pellets over 700fps hitting a wall of retaining blocks just disintegrate into tiny lead shrapnel. I have several fake lawn 12'x6' flipped over, black side up so ammo just flattens & drops. No ricochet at all. Unless you use BB's, or 8.44's at 40 yards from a 6ft/lb gun. Then they can bounce back a little.
(2) JSB .25 25.43 grain Kings at 880fps from FX Elite ST.
(2) JSB 18.13's from one of many .22's
And finally 16.54 GTO .25's hitting at subsonic speeds.
Here's one hitting same flexible SS sheets sent supersonic cracked like a .17HMR from Sumatra on highest setting. Accuracy is not there at supersonic/transonic flight. This only speaks for the hardness of GTO's.
Accuracy is king with an airgun that has no true hydrostatic shock. Big holes in clay are impressive but that's not hydrostatic shock, which is absolutely devastating on tissue.
With any airgun short of big bores and a heart lung shot >300ft/lbs placements of shots should be like that of an Archer. You're depending on a precise hit. You must know your quarries anatomy. So like an Archer, you learn to stalk. You learn to decide on if you should take a shot or not. Do you want to track your dinner for 4-8 hours? Maybe longer, or loose it to predators or infection rendering it uneatable? No. Hunting ethics and ft/lb per lb of game weight aren't something that I would hold as Gospel calculations for a clean kill but they're important for a clean quick kill if you don't make that perfect shot.
I had a Groundhog that I watched get hit at my mailbox by a car. I put him 32 yards out and sent a JSB 18.13 for his ear from a just shy of 30ft/lb Rainstorm. I hit slightly high. That pellet hit his skull and rode under the skin to the other side. I slit the skin and pulled it out. Head was flat but the point is angles play a huge part in relatively low power projectiles. Just like a .17HMR wouldn't be very effective on a Cape Buffalo as those bullets are meant to explode with no pass throughs on fur bearers so as not to ruin the pelt. Hit them with a .22-250 and it guys, skins, turns em inside out if the 55 is still going anywhere between the 4Kfps muzzle velocity and 3Kfps at probably close to 200 yards..
Bottom line is if GTO's are accurate from your rifle then you need to go for heart or brain shots through ears. A soft JSB 18.13 deflected off Groundhogs skull would have been a long horrible death for it. A GTO would have punched straight through his skull into the brain and off like a switch.
Edit: Of course YO is correct as he's no newbie. He was teaching me back in 2011 when I was fairly new and only been into airguns since 08.
But remember that the lighter the pellet the faster it will shed its energy. A GTO is a AWESOME close range penetrator & longer range target pellet for springers but it's main point of fame is penetration at YO's suggestive distances. Remember placement is everything or they will just fly through like a ice pick. They don't dump energy into target unless they hit bone.
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Thanks for the replies.
Yo, later I realized that the 17 ft pounds was wrong, that's what I comp for the 18 grain JSB's at 650 fps that I chrony from the muzzle. I need to compare these two pellets further before hunting season. I got the GTO's to try in the 2240 I bought this past winter and at the end of my shoot at the range just thought I'd chrony the GTO's through the rifle just to see how fast they were; I was suprised to shoot them within a dime! The best group I've had yet with this gun. I have to try a few more groups just to find if I'm shooting this well consistantly, or if it was just a fluke group.
Thanks again for the input.
Yo, later I realized that the 17 ft pounds was wrong, that's what I comp for the 18 grain JSB's at 650 fps that I chrony from the muzzle. I need to compare these two pellets further before hunting season. I got the GTO's to try in the 2240 I bought this past winter and at the end of my shoot at the range just thought I'd chrony the GTO's through the rifle just to see how fast they were; I was suprised to shoot them within a dime! The best group I've had yet with this gun. I have to try a few more groups just to find if I'm shooting this well consistantly, or if it was just a fluke group.
Thanks again for the input.
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I have shot doves at 60 yards with 18 GB JSB and 11.75 GB GTO pellets. Same trajectory in my FX400 but more energy on target with lead pellets. Have fun, Scott
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The GTO 11.75gr should have enough lethal energy out to 50 yards from your gun. Probably got about 5-6fpe left at 50 yards so 25-30 yards wouldn't be any problem at all.
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Thanks again for the helpful lists. In the second list of estimates I was surprised to see the much lower fps for the groundhogs than for racoon.
Like has offer been said, shot placement is critical for a humane kill.
Like has offer been said, shot placement is critical for a humane kill.
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Raccoons are more easily dispatched with a lung shot than a head shot. If you are in question about your fps and penetration, go for the body. The state of Texas requires raccoons to be taken with the same FPE as deer.
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