Pre-war BSA Standard questions

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Crank

Crank

Member
Jun 3, 2018
322
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California, United States
In a moment of weakness, I just purchased this train wreck because it looks like an interesting challenge and it should be headed my way in a day or two. The piston tube is cracked and has been poorly repaired, only to fail again. Obviously, the end cap with the trigger and stock can be removed from the tube, but I'm curious if anyone has experience removing the tube from the breech/barrel assembly? From what I could glean from another forum and hundreds of pictures on the interwebs, it appears to be threaded together also. If anyone has a parts gun that I could raid a trigger guard, sights and the latch stud, PM me with what you have. This appears to be the "A" variant and I didn't bother to ask what caliber it is, but most seem to be .177. I want to see if I can weld on a new rear section using TIG and then bore it and thread it to keep any original markings intact.

I would love to hear any personal observations about typical performance and real world accuracy. I'm not terribly worried about it, I just have a soft spot for stuff that most people consider too far gone.I don't mind machining replacement parts if there are none to be had, but I'll never miss a chance to save time. This will be the second oldest air rifle I own, my Giffard has it beat by about 40 years.

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Mark
 
Look at my "1912 BSA truck gun " post on Warriors. Metal shop. See link below. I made a lot of parts for the gun because I can. 😁

The trigger block threads right off. Push the barrel against a piece of carpet as you unthread. As Brits say " Trigger guard for that one is rare as rocking horse poope". 1930's "round tops" are harder to find than the relatively common 1919-20 model. BSA shipped a ton of them to US those two years. The 30's stamped trigger guards have the trigger adjustment screw like the pre 1919 the whole way back to the 1907 "BSA Air Rifle" and 1907 Lincoln Jeffries had. Difference is they were cast steel and attach differently to the trigger block so they won't work with your trigger block. or stock. I might have a 3 hole trigger block that would work but I don't have a trigger guard for it! The more common trigger guard it uses is still expensive when you find one if you win the bid. Make one? You might find some of the stuff to get it working at Protek Supplies in UK. Search it. They have front sights for BSA prewar but your original one is supposed to be a little shorter. See the front sight I made in the post I directed you to (page 2). They might have a used cocking lever latch but I personally would make one. The rear "turret" sight can be found for sale occasionally. It's the same as used on the Mk 1 Airsporter and Cadet Major. They ain't cheap. I make my own leather seals. I can tell you how to fit one. All the threads in the gun are proprietary. There are no taps or dies available for them anywhere. A system BSA developed for their own use. Probably in conjunction with George Lincoln Jeffries. Without him BSA would have never made any airguns. George held all the patents. 

I've been collecting and working on vintage BSA almost 30 years.

https://airgunwarriors.com/community/metal-shop/1912-bsa-truck-gun/
 
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Karl, 

That is quite the save you are doing there and your skills are exceptional. Like yourself, I will likely make the parts for two reasons, one is that I'm not going to be terribly patient for bits to pop up for sale at random and like yourself, I have the equipment to make it myself. The million dollar question will be what is the best way to save/repair the tube due to the cracking. 

Have you ever separated the tube from the barrel assembly? I didn't see any photos in your post that indicated you had in this case. Too bad you're on the other side of the country, I'd enjoy getting a chance to pick your brain on these early BSA's. My only other BSA's are a couple of Super10's.I appreciate your input and I'll keep this thread updated when i get it and begin the autopsy.

Mark
 
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The barrel will thread off with some heat. It's threaded and then soldered. I've never had to do it but some have. Welding is your only option. Somebody made that harder by brazing it first. Contaminated the metal. Never braze cracks! With a new leather seal you can afford to have a small amount of slop at the rear of the cylinder if you use a 2 hole or a 3 hole trigger block. One hole trigger blocks rely on the piston rod and trigger for sear engagement. Any wiggle and you have an inconsistent trigger. with the one hole blocks. Three hole blocks have internally adjustable triggers. I have a three hole block I would consider trading you and that would also greatly simplify making your missing trigger guard. BSA didn't make many 30's rifles and only in the light patterns and rare Club Standards (CS prefix). The world was in depression. That's the only time they made the stamped trigger guards with adjustment screw shown below. I've never seen a used one offered.

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Three hole block

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Thanks! Knowing that there is solder in that joint will keep me from applying too many ugga-duggas to get it loose. As long as there are no factory markings that have been affected by the previous brazing, I should be able to grind away the contaminated areas with a good carbide burr. Most likely, I will turn a steel plug to snugly fit the bore of the tube for two reasons, first in order that I can put the tube in my lathe without fear of distortion and I can also incorporate a reduced diameter area where any welding would be required and I can use a sheet of copper to back the welds.

As for the trigger block, I will have to see how things look when I have it in hand. Again, I can always TIG weld material if needed to restore tolerance. In regards to the trigger guard, if I can get a measurement of the material thickness, I can take some appropriately thick stock and recreate the shape. 

After seeing the amount of pellets and other detritus that you found in your "truck gun", I will be intrigued to see what archeological finds this one will contain. I'm a bit anxious to see how quickly it will arrive here, the UPS tracker still only shows label created, dang it! 

I really appreciate your help and I'll try to keep a good photo record of what I start with and it's progress. There is definitely a void here in the U.S. for these guns and decent information. I have gleaned some info from the U.K. sites, but I'm not a regular follower and haven't signed on with any of them yet.

Mark
 
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Take the braze off with a file. The compression tube is too thin for attacking with the burr. A file will knock it down nice and neat. Weld it up and get your files back out. Follow up with 400 paper wrapped around the file. Finish up sanding around the cylinder shoe shine style with a strip of 400 cloth or paper. That's as far as BSA went as far as polish.is concerned. Cold blue actually matches the grayish blue BSA used pretty well on most parts. Every steel blues differently.. Nowhere near as deep and polished as modern British blue. (blacking).. PM me if you want to when you get your gun in hand. I might have some parts you need or at least give you dimensions. Doesn't really matter until after you do something with the compression tube. That's what the whole project rides on. I have a 1907 Improved Model B that somebody welded up like that but it ain't pretty. But it does shoot. It's still a gun I can let people shoot without any worries about cosmetic damage. I like to let people shoot them. I can share the experience and not have to worry about getting boo boos on my nice guns.
 
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Well, the plus side is I am a fairly skilled TIG welder and with a lathe, shaper and two milling machines, I should be able to keep this one from being ugly.

UPS has decided that they are going to take their sweet time and deliver it next Tuesday. So the only rational thing for me to do was buy another light model to have parts to copy from. So much for an inexpensive project😆

This other one is a 3 screw L model from about 1925, it's complete and in much better condition. So now I have two guns in less than three days, but I'm certain that I don't have a problem 😁.

Mark
 
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What kind of shaper? A lot of machinists today don't know what that is. They've never seen one. Mine have been 8 inch stroke and under. I've had a Boxford, Ammco, Atlas, Shape Rite, and currently have a very nice Logan. And another old Ammco that's stashed away at the family farm that belonged to my father. I started using that one when I was 14. Most machinists wouldn't know how to grind the tool bits today. I only use HSS on my lathes too. I don't need carbide. Or at least very rarely.. 

I think the second light pattern you bought has the BSA logo pressed into the checkering. Right? Not many of that style came to the US. I have a really nice 1924 Club Standard with the same stock. Probably considered mint. The light etching is practically white. 
 
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With properly ground bit a shaper will give a finish on aluminum like this. Better than a fly cutter on a mill. See the reflections 

Cold rolled steel will almost look surface ground. Stainless steel finishes very nice as well. Better than cold rolled

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Fitting a home made leather seal. Shop made screw as well

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Near mint light etching almost 100 years old. You will rarely see it this bright. 1924 Club Standard in unusual .22 caliber. Club Standard .177 was popular in Bell Target competition. where .177 is advantageous.

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