POI shift is it me?

[Pizzaman2976]

I was shooting an R7 in .177 on my indoor range at 8 yards and getting pellet on pellet, which wasn't unusual for that distance. After going through a couple targets, I noticed my POI was off when I moved my aim point. The POI was off maybe an inch or so, and I wasn't moving my aim point very much. The POI started going all over the place randomly, but every few shots I would be able to get a group of 2 or 3 pellet on pellet again (the aim point would just be off). 

I kept having to try to re-alight the turrets to chase the POI. Usually, I just assume it's user error and I'm doing something different when I shoot. But here the range is pretty short and I'm aiming pretty dang close to the original aim point. Is this me? Is this scope no good? I changed scopes and was able to get pellet on pellet for certain groups again, but I feel like I'm constantly chasing the POI by adjusting my turrets, and every once in a while, I'll get a bigger group (maybe dime size). I understand that accuracy for springers depends largely on the shooter, but here we're talking pretty short distances, and I had no problem getting accurate shots earlier.... super weird.

 

[AirShot]

First shoot over a chrony to see if your rifle is consistant...if that is good, then try open sights if you have them. Unless you have a good quality scope, chances are the scipe wont hold poi. Could be loose mounts also. Numerous things it can be, including...yes it could be the way you hold your rifle. Need more info for an accurate guess.....

 

[theLBC]

what kind of sights or optic?

most scopes even for airguns have min parallax ~10 yards, and actually most scopes will have min parallax 25-100 yards...

this means your poa changes if your head or eye isn't in exactly the same position behind the scope for every shot.

 

[Raden1942]

I agree with all of that except I would add that you should do a tissue test before doing anything else. Just take a piece of toilet paper or tear a kleenex in quarters and place it directly above the breech. If it moves at all other than small movement from recoil you have a rear breech seal failure. I suggest this as the first test because it takes 30 seconds. I can't tell you how many times I tore apart a rifle chasing imagined problems before I learned about this test. I felt super dumb for not thinking about it before. When I was 13 there wasn't internet and I didn't have a chrono. I just toiled away so many times checking the piston seals or examining the spring when I could have just done that simple test. Also you should make sure all your stock screws are snug. Good luck my friend. 

 

[Glenroiland]

I agree with all of that except I would add that you should do a tissue test before doing anything else. Just take a piece of toilet paper or tear a kleenex in quarters and place it directly above the breech. If it moves at all other than small movement from recoil you have a rear breech seal failure. I suggest this as the first test because it takes 30 seconds. I can't tell you how many times I tore apart a rifle chasing imagined problems before I learned about this test. I felt super dumb for not thinking about it before. When I was 13 there wasn't internet and I didn't have a chrono. I just toiled away so many times checking the piston seals or examining the spring when I could have just done that simple test. Also you should make sure all your stock screws are snug. Good luck my friend.

This is good advise. 



Running over a chrony if you have one is fantastic as well. Tighten all screws. Shoot iron sights. My concern is it is the optic..

 

[Pizzaman2976]

Thanks for all the tips guys. That kleenex idea is great! I'll also try the chrony... My scopes are a bug buster and similar monstrum 2-7, both with parallax to 7.5 (or lower) and I'm shooting at only 4-5x or so hopefully that would limit parallax issues. I guess it could be my fundamentals. It was weird cause like 10 minutes before all this started happening, I was smiling about how accurate and easy to shoot it was! It seemed like I couldn't miss before. I could also try another scope... I'll keep trying things! 

 

[Glenroiland]

Thanks for all the tips guys. That kleenex idea is great! I'll also try the chrony... My scopes are a bug buster and similar monstrum 2-7, both with parallax to 7.5 (or lower) and I'm shooting at only 4-5x or so hopefully that would limit parallax issues. I guess it could be my fundamentals. It was weird cause like 10 minutes before all this started happening, I was smiling about how accurate and easy to shoot it was! It seemed like I couldn't miss before. I could also try another scope... I'll keep trying things!

I recall hearing you could also coat the breech in powder, and look for "spray" after shooting it....too lazy to look it up right now, lol..

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Moving the target just 4 inches at 8 yards is moving the target 4 feet at 100 yards. Most likely your issue is head placement on the stock.

I like to use a cheek riser like this one. It has adjustable pads to elevate the cheek and get your eye in line with the scope. I like to have it high enough that my eye just barely makes it down to the scope. This gives me as close to the most consistent head placement obtainable.
While looking through your scope at the 8 yard target just move your head around on the stock and see the poi move around. If you employ a cheek riser at its uppermost height, where you cannot move your head without loosing the view altogether, you are in a perfect repeatable place. After this is achieved try barely moving your head and use your parallax adjustment to dial out the final poi movement and set the scope exactly for your 8 yards. This is a great cheek riser.

 

[Glenroiland]

I like to use a cheek riser like this one. It has adjustable pads to elevate the cheek and get your eye in line with the scope. I like to have it high enough that my eye just barely makes it down to the scope. This gives me as close to the most consistent head placement obtainable.
While looking through your scope at the 8 yard target just move your head around on the stock and see the poi move around. If you employ a cheek riser at its uppermost height, where you cannot move your head without loosing the view altogether, you are in a perfect repeatable place. After this is achieved try barely moving your head and use your parallax adjustment to dial out the final poi movement and set the scope exactly for your 8 yards. This is a great cheek riser.

I like that one..

 

[Pizzaman2976]

I like to use a cheek riser like this one. It has adjustable pads to elevate the cheek and get your eye in line with the scope. I like to have it high enough that my eye just barely makes it down to the scope. This gives me as close to the most consistent head placement obtainable.
While looking through your scope at the 8 yard target just move your head around on the stock and see the poi move around. If you employ a cheek riser at its uppermost height, where you cannot move your head without loosing the view altogether, you are in a perfect repeatable place. After this is achieved try barely moving your head and use your parallax adjustment to dial out the final poi movement and set the scope exactly for your 8 yards. This is a great cheek riser.

I like that one..

Agree! This is a great tip! 

 

[seangabrell]

I like to use a cheek riser like this one. It has adjustable pads to elevate the cheek and get your eye in line with the scope. I like to have it high enough that my eye just barely makes it down to the scope. This gives me as close to the most consistent head placement obtainable.
While looking through your scope at the 8 yard target just move your head around on the stock and see the poi move around. If you employ a cheek riser at its uppermost height, where you cannot move your head without loosing the view altogether, you are in a perfect repeatable place. After this is achieved try barely moving your head and use your parallax adjustment to dial out the final poi movement and set the scope exactly for your 8 yards. This is a great cheek riser.

I like that one..

Agree! This is a great tip!

I’ve been a victim of this and it hits the nail on the head

 

[Pizzaman2976]

Thanks I'm going to keep practicing! I also have a Leupold and couple other solid scopes I can use to confirm if there are any scope issues. I agree it sounds like its me at this point though. I usually cheat and put a piece of tape on the stock to make sure my cheek is in the same place everytime, but I can see now I have nothing to make sure my vertical alignment to the scope stays consistent...

 

[Glenroiland]

Thanks I'm going to keep practicing! I also have a Leupold and couple other solid scopes I can use to confirm if there are any scope issues. I agree it sounds like its me at this point though. I usually cheat and put a piece of tape on the stock to make sure my cheek is in the same place everytime, but I can see now I have nothing to make sure my vertical alignment to the scope stays consistent...

Doesn't sound like your new to the game..



Is the shift in POI only vertical in direction and not horizontal?

 

[pdxFrank]

check your screws, make sure the gun isn't wiggling around in it's stock.

 

[Pizzaman2976]

I'll be checking all the screws! Thank you. And the POI shifts are both vertical and horizontals. 

 

[OldSpook]

I'm plus one on stock weld (cheek placement on the stock). Parallax errors are introduced by exactly that.

 

[Raden1942]

In my experience cheek weld placement is key but it doesn't generally make poi shift completely random. For me it was always high. For you it might be different. Honestly I feel like unless you take a different position every time you shoulder the rifle you should get a consistent poi unless something else is wrong. If you can't figure this out please pm me and I will figure it out with you. There has to be something wrong with your gun if your sure your fundamentals are good. You sound like your familiar with the sport so it's possible your gun has an issue. 

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Raiden1942. Cheek weld should not make the poi random. That’s right. What I have seen happen is cheek weld causes a poi shift and frustration causes it to go random. However, it could very well be multiple issues. As pdxFrank said, loose stock screws are always the first check.

There is one other thing that can help with cheek weld consistency. When bringing DOWN the eye into the scope and just getting the sight picture, I also cant my head ( I’m a lefty) to the right and just barely make contact with my ear to to stock. Now the vertical and horizontal have a point of reference. This two point system is used by archers also. Used it for years in archery leagues. If I forget to do the horizontal point when shooting long range, a poor shot will be the result. Try and find a horizontal reference point that works for you.

This system happens automatically with peep sight or just open sights. The shooter adjusts the head for a two point alignment. Scopes give to much freedom with a single point of alignment.
Think of it like this. When looking through a diopter sight with a hole smaller than a pin, even a mm of head movement and the sight picture is gone. A scope doesn’t change this. That head placement consistency is still just as critical. Really high end scopes are more forgiving here but the scopes we are using, not so much.

 

[davelarson]

Sitting in the recliner shooting my HW30 at 8 yards I have experienced exactly what you are talking about. I’m in agreement with the same cheek weld being important. I noticed that when I would try a slightly different hold the pellets would go left consistently and it was very confusing. I thought the scope was bad so I tried a red dot and got the same thing. Once I concentrated on the cheek weld and made sure the rifle was rested the same way on my crossed leg (the balance point) I got the one hole accuracy back. I’m really liking the red dot on the HW30, so lightweight and small.

 

[shambozzie]

Great stuff guys. I would add one more thing to check. Next time pay attention to your finger placement and try to duplicate on each shot. It's the small things that will bite you and don't forget about (Brass).