Pellet vs slugs for hunting

[davelarson]

JimD you are correct, as I pulled apart the book I could see that it wasn’t soaked all the way through.
Today I’ll try it again with the two other books that have been thoroughly soaked.
The wood test is definitely not accurate because of the inconsistency of the wood, one pellet was up against a knot.
I believe that the redesigned JSB pellets fragmented because they were going around 1000 fps into wood, we’ll see today how they look in the wet book.
The Hades are definitely really nasty pellets! Looking forward to seeing what they do in the thoroughly soaked paper.
I also found some H&N barracuda hunter extreme in .177, 9.57 grain that I’ll try in the RedWolf.
The JSB .30 44 grain pellet is more accurate in the Crown than the Hades are, but at 18 yards it’s not a big difference.
At 50 yards the JSB’s are way better than the Hades.
So I’ll do the wet paper test again and post later today.
This is pretty fun!
I have tested penetration on squirrel carcasses before, then I use them as bait for fly hunting lol!
There’s nothing that brings in flies faster than a carcass, and carrion beetles appear quickly as well.
I’m really looking forward to fly hunting, it’s one of my favorite activities!
Here’s some pictures to enjoy

 

[davelarson]

Well - I lazed off since the slugs and the gel were not slated for arrival. Woke up feeling antsy and wondering about test media before recalling some tests in soap. The aforesaid soap was procured and a set of 4 blocks was setup. Each piece was 7cmx 7cm by 5cm in thickness.
Each shot at 18 yds (lasered)View attachment 345052target face - low and innermost JSB monster,JSB hades and ultra shok next . Outermost is JSB hades.
The monster stopped midway through the last block - one hades veered off and not recovered , rest two ultra shoks recovered. One hades and ultra shok found in second block last ultra found in third block.
The ultras had little soap turds extruding from the posterior- indicating a loss of middle constriction function. Hades had textbook mushrooming and seems to be the new pmag.
The monster seems to be the king of penetration. Will rpt test with gelatin and slugs hpView attachment 345052View attachment 345053View attachment 345054View attachment 345055View attachment 345056View attachment 345057View attachment 345058View attachment 345059View attachment 345060View attachment 345061View attachment 345062

Good test BulletFreak, in the next to the last photo you can see a pretty wicked wound channel.
Looking forward to the gel testing!

 

[davelarson]

On the first test I didn’t have the paper adequately soaked, and nothing got through the first book.
Today I used the last two wet books and I had soaked them all night.
This time the .30 JSB 44.75 got through the two books, and I only recovered one pellet.
Everything else was stopped in the second book, with the .30 Hades almost getting through.
The .30 Hades stayed together, and so did the .177 Barracuda’s.
The Knockout slugs mushroomed very well, and the FX Hybrids did also.
The .177 9.57 Barracuda stayed together like the Hades did.
The .177 Barracuda and the 18.1 grain .22 were both shot on high power and broke the sound barrier, reminded me of rimfire.
It was a fun test, thanks for looking.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

When I used to test pellets/bullets and guns my medium was well soaked Phonebooks ( used to put them into a cooler and soak them for a day, well paked into the cooler they would keep their shape without expanding to much )

I like Phonebooks because you have a lot of thin pages and pealing of the pages you can record the penetration and it's repeatable since the medium is always the same so the data can be compared throughout many sessions.

 

[Insanity]

When I used to test pellets/bullets and guns my medium was well soaked Phonebooks ( used to put them into a cooler and soak them for a day, well paked into the cooler they would keep their shape without expanding to much )

I like Phonebooks because you have a lot of thin pages and pealing of the pages you can record the penetration and it's repeatable since the medium is always the same so the data can be compared throughout many sessions.

I have seen quite a few pics of his phone books may not agree with it but its repeatable.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

I have seen quite a few pics of his phone books may not agree with it but its repeatable.

The medium itself is not to replicate or try to replicate any animal parts but is only to have a structure that is constant and can be used to compare and collect data consistently over the years,.....of course ballistic gel would be way better but I'm poor and had to do what I could and was best for my finances

 

[Insanity]

The medium itself is not to replicate or try to replicate any animal parts but is only to have a structure that is constant and can be used to compare and collect data consistently over the years,.....of course ballistic gel would be way better but I'm poor and had to do what I could and was best for my finances

It would get very expensive buying meats to choot.

 

[JimD]

Ballistic gelatin testing can be cheap if you just buy the gelatin in dry form and mix it up yourself. The standard 10% is just a mixture of water and gelatin where the gelatin weighs 10% of the weight of the water. You need a scale for the gelatin and something to heat the water/gelatin mixture to get it to disolve and then something to pour the mixture in for cooling so the gel can set up. It's a good idea to grease the pan so the gel comes out. I have done it.

I like looking at the "wound channel" too but we have to remember that our projectiles are like similar velocity PBs and we do not move animal tissue fast enough that the temporary wound channel is actually damaged. It just moves back in place. So while it looks interesting, the areas beyond the actual projectile path is not actually damaged - despite what the soap or ballistic gel results look like. Kind of misleading IMHO.

I got into testing in wet paper based upon the writings of Finn Aagard. He was an African professional hunter for years and then wrote for hunting magazines later in his life. Finn wrote that wet paper best represented penetration in muscle tissue. Ballistic gel is too low resistance to represent muscles. I tested projectiles from my 30-06 in wet newspapers. Nosler partitions would go through about 18 inches. Hornady interlocks more like 12.

I use magazines now because I have them. It's also easier to get a handle on the penetration just by looking at how many magazines were fully penetrated. Easier than counting pages for sure. I use old American Rifleman magazines as my first choice or Car and Drivers. Both average around 80 pages per magazine. I think my results may be more comparable test to test because I use the same type of magazines when I can but I also include the Prod to have a link to prior tests.

 

[850renxrs]

JimD you are correct, as I pulled apart the book I could see that it wasn’t soaked all the way through.
Today I’ll try it again with the two other books that have been thoroughly soaked.
The wood test is definitely not accurate because of the inconsistency of the wood, one pellet was up against a knot.
I believe that the redesigned JSB pellets fragmented because they were going around 1000 fps into wood, we’ll see today how they look in the wet book.
The Hades are definitely really nasty pellets! Looking forward to seeing what they do in the thoroughly soaked paper.
I also found some H&N barracuda hunter extreme in .177, 9.57 grain that I’ll try in the RedWolf.
The JSB .30 44 grain pellet is more accurate in the Crown than the Hades are, but at 18 yards it’s not a big difference.
At 50 yards the JSB’s are way better than the Hades.
So I’ll do the wet paper test again and post later today.
This is pretty fun!
I have tested penetration on squirrel carcasses before, then I use them as bait for fly hunting lol!
There’s nothing that brings in flies faster than a carcass, and carrion beetles appear quickly as well.
I’m really looking forward to fly hunting, it’s one of my favorite activities!
Here’s some pictures to enjoy

View attachment 345043

View attachment 345044

View attachment 345045

I find your results with the .30 hades vs the regular jsb’s very interesting because that is what I expected to happen with my maverick.
At 950fps at the muzzle the hades at 100yds grouped about 1.5” for me and the regular domes were over 2.25.
They definitely do have a different balance point though. The tail on the hades is almost solid where the regulars have a much more hollow tail. It must just come down to fps.

 

[dens228]

I forgot about this thread and already posted a little test I did today in the pellets sub forum.
Here's the link

22 Redesigns vs Knockouts

Today I shot six RD's and five KO's into wet bundled magazines at 30 yards and around 930 fps for each. RD's penetrated just over an inch and all expanded to between .36-.37 inches. KO's penetrated just over 1.25 inches and expanded to between .24-.26 inches. Just thought I'd show the...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[orangeokie]

Placement may indeed have been the issue. Projectiles can also be deflected sometimes by angles in the skull.

I test penetration in two different mediums. For skull penetration I shoot a test block of multiple layers of 1/4 MDF spaced a little over 1/4 inch apart. My small PCPs, under 20 fpe, go through one layer, not two. My 30+ fpe PCPs go through two. My one 40+ PCP will go through 3. All at 25 yards. I've only tested a few slugs but I think one was a 25 caliber knockout. Plus a couple H&N and at least one NSA. All penetrated about the same as domed pellets in the MDF. Didn't expand a lot but expanded some but still went through the MDF OK. You are shooting the knockouts faster than my guns, however, so it may have expanded significantly more. A test would tell you. More expansion = less penetration but I would have thought you would still have had plenty for a coon head.

I also test in wet magazines. I used to use newspapers but I don't have those any more. This is to simulate penetration in muscle tissue. I soak the magazines for at least a couple hours so they are saturated. Again the test is at 25 yards. My little guns go through about 10 80 page magazines. My more powerful guns may go close to twice as far. Slugs do not penetrate nearly as well as domed pellets in these tests. They expand and that really cuts down the penetration.

While I've tested a few slugs I have always used domed pellets on animals. I might use a polymag or something on an animal some day but I will test it first. My Prod is my "minimum acceptable standard" for penetration. If polymags will penetrate as far from my P35-22 as FTTs from my Prod, then they may get used. But the domed work so well there isn't much reason to switch.

What is “MDF?” Thanks

 

[iAMzehTOASTY1]

What is “MDF?” Thanks

Medium density fiber