Pellet testing on pests?

[Don.Chipmunk-slayer]

Even though this is about pellet testing, I'm posting this in the Hunting Forum, because it involves pest shooting.

I think we can all agree that no matter what substitute media you use to test pellet performance, it's still just not the same as hitting rats, or chipmunks, etc. So I had the thought of using the chipmunks that I get, and propping them up in front of a pile of soft cloths, or something else that could capture a pellet after a pass through, without further damage to the pellet, so I can see what they actually do when hitting a pest. Maybe even using Play Doh to see how much deeper they would penetrate on a larger pest.

... or have I been watching too many zombie movies?

 

[Struckat]

Mmm, yes, too many movies.

i look around for pass throughs, but never find them. Then my interest fades away.

 

[imtrigerhapy]

I was going to do something similar but with just clay i dug out of ground and processed to be as clean as i can get. Its not the same as a critter but i figured it would be a good media to test. I am getting a corbin slug press and will be able to make a few different slug types like regular hp, hollow ogive, and x punch slugs. My thinking is i would be able to hopefully see a difference butween the 3 and see how much different weight of slugs and speed make. This is in a vulcan 3hp .30 and ive played around with 59 gr zan in the clay....its fairly destructive at 970fps. There is nothing left of the slug but little pieces and a giant cavity in clay. These tests were to see how much clay i would need for my testing so far about a 8x8x8 block contains without too much block expansion. Pluss it was fun and my kiddos enjoyed getting dirty making clay

 

[Don.Chipmunk-slayer]

Mmm, yes, too many movies.

i look around for pass throughs, but never find them. Then my interest fades away.

Unfortunately-fortunately, my interest sometimes develops a mind of it's own and develops a tenacity you wouldn't believe.

 

[Raider03]

Unfortunately-fortunately, my interest sometimes develops a mind of it's own and develops a tenacity you wouldn't believe.

Understood,
I have seen people use chicken breast for the same purpose...

 

[JimD]

I test in wet magazines based upon writings of Finn Aagard, a former professional hunter in Africa. He believed penetration in wet paper was a reasonably simulation of muscle tissue. I benchmarked those tests to penetration in squirrels by shooting a couple dead squirrels I hung from a tree. I don't use guns and/or projectiles that will not go through 8-10 wet magazines of about 80 pages each. I am more worried about killing the pest than over penetration. How much penetration you get in an animal depends a lot on where you hit it. I killed 18 squirrels with my P35-25 when it was tuned to about 32 fpe. 3 shots failed to exit. Two were lengthwise shots that stopped under the skin in the rear. One was a double shoulder shot that stopped under the skin. The lengthwise shots ran a little but all the squirrels died quickly. 15 of 18 were pass throughs. My P35-22 is tuned to about that power level and has killed all 10 I have shot with it and all were DRT with pass throughs. I mainly worried about penetration of my Prod after having two of the first 4 squirrels run off. Tuning it up to about 18 fpe has dropped the last 14 I've used it on but they rarely exit. My P35-177 is at a similar power and has dropped over 20 but I lost one I shot in the rear end. It penetrates more but still often does not exit.

I have a collection of pellets I've taken from dead squirrels. All are distorted some but the copper plated FTTs from the Prod still look pretty close to the way they did before I shot them. Higher powered guns will distort pellets more, especially when they hit bone. I do not use expanding projectiles. I have shot squirrels with Crosman HPs from the Prod but they don't expand at Prod velocity. An expanding projectile will reduce penetration which could be useful if you are worried about over penetration but even non expanding 177 pellets take squirrels quickly with any sort of reasonable placement so I conclude expansion is not necessary.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Understood,
I have seen people use chicken breast for the same purpose...

I prefer to use them for supper..

 

[Don.Chipmunk-slayer]

I test in wet magazines based upon writings of Finn Aagard, a former professional hunter in Africa. He believed penetration in wet paper was a reasonably simulation of muscle tissue. I benchmarked those tests to penetration in squirrels by shooting a couple dead squirrels I hung from a tree. I don't use guns and/or projectiles that will not go through 8-10 wet magazines of about 80 pages each. I am more worried about killing the pest than over penetration. How much penetration you get in an animal depends a lot on where you hit it. I killed 18 squirrels with my P35-25 when it was tuned to about 32 fpe. 3 shots failed to exit. Two were lengthwise shots that stopped under the skin in the rear. One was a double shoulder shot that stopped under the skin. The lengthwise shots ran a little but all the squirrels died quickly. 15 of 18 were pass throughs. My P35-22 is tuned to about that power level and has killed all 10 I have shot with it and all were DRT with pass throughs. I mainly worried about penetration of my Prod after having two of the first 4 squirrels run off. Tuning it up to about 18 fpe has dropped the last 14 I've used it on but they rarely exit. My P35-177 is at a similar power and has dropped over 20 but I lost one I shot in the rear end. It penetrates more but still often does not exit.

I have a collection of pellets I've taken from dead squirrels. All are distorted some but the copper plated FTTs from the Prod still look pretty close to the way they did before I shot them. Higher powered guns will distort pellets more, especially when they hit bone. I do not use expanding projectiles. I have shot squirrels with Crosman HPs from the Prod but they don't expand at Prod velocity. An expanding projectile will reduce penetration which could be useful if you are worried about over penetration but even non expanding 177 pellets take squirrels quickly with any sort of reasonable placement so I conclude expansion is not necessary.

With my background, overpenetration WAS ALWAYS a concern as you are responsible for every bullet you fire. That said, I've always wanted every ounce of every foot-pound of energy expended in the target (with the caveat of enough penetration to reach vitals).

I get that on bigger game (whitetail deer+), having complete penetration and an exit wound makes bleed out faster, and makes the game (usually) drop faster. But let's face it, my #1 targets are chipmunks that are at best, still shy of 2" across, broadside.

While I do prefer expanding pellets, I know that sub-two inch penetration with my 392 is not likely-no matter how fast I'm shooting the pellets or how well/fast they expand. I'm also shooting in a relatively 'shooting-friendly' suburban area (and want to keep it that way), I'm always sure of my surroundings and backdrop, so pellets that pass through bury themselves safely in the dirt, but why use a pellet/power combination that can penetrate 8+ inches in a 1.75" pest?

The easy answer would be to pump the rifle less for less power and less penetration, but I'm a power junkie.

 

[Vetmx]

The magic pellet subject has been going on for as long as I’ve been on forums. Just like powder burners, I’ve always judged my projectiles on the animals I pursue. If I don’t feel like digging through a carcass, I have an animal graveyard that I revisit after nature takes it course. A metal detector and a container is all I need. But I’ve recovered plenty of pass through projectiles with my metal detector also if the data is important enough.

The whole pellet thing is very very simple. Once you establish your maximum range, you decide dome or wadcutter. Then you start testing for accuracy. Dome or dome style like a Hades are pretty easy. Wadcutter or wadcutter style like a Polymag is where it can take some work. Here’s why and I’ll give an example.

My dad lives in a very nice hood. His max safe range is around 30 yards. Primary targets are an insane amount of chippers, hosps and the occasional red squirrel and starling. Dome 8.4’s are stupid accurate out of his BSA. But there is the pass through risk. That risk is not only focused on a pellet flying through a neighborhood, it’s for his own property damage. Like his fence, feeder, etc. So I put his gun on a Polymag. At first it wasn’t chipper head accurate. But after adjusting the speed, now it is. I recently had to reseal his gun and tested the Polymags at 50 yards. Not horrible, but nothing compared to a dome. But he will never shoot that far so he’s good.

To sum it up, there is a difference with different style pellets. But it’s 90% not about expansion. It’s a big ask to get a pellet to fly right and be flimsy enough to expand. It’s all about cavitation. The more cavitation, the more energy is dumped and the safer things are that are beyond the target.

 

[Don.Chipmunk-slayer]

The magic pellet subject has been going on for as long as I’ve been on forums. Just like powder burners, I’ve always judged my projectiles on the animals I pursue. If I don’t feel like digging through a carcass, I have an animal graveyard that I revisit after nature takes it course. A metal detector and a container is all I need. But I’ve recovered plenty of pass through projectiles with my metal detector also if the data is important enough.

The whole pellet thing is very very simple. Once you establish your maximum range, you decide dome or wadcutter. Then you start testing for accuracy. Dome or dome style like a Hades are pretty easy. Wadcutter or wadcutter style like a Polymag is where it can take some work. Here’s why and I’ll give an example.

My dad lives in a very nice hood. His max safe range is around 30 yards. Primary targets are an insane amount of chippers, hosps and the occasional red squirrel and starling. Dome 8.4’s are stupid accurate out of his BSA. But there is the pass through risk. That risk is not only focused on a pellet flying through a neighborhood, it’s for his own property damage. Like his fence, feeder, etc. So I put his gun on a Polymag. At first it wasn’t chipper head accurate. But after adjusting the speed, now it is. I recently had to reseal his gun and tested the Polymags at 50 yards. Not horrible, but nothing compared to a dome. But he will never shoot that far so he’s good.

To sum it up, there is a difference with different style pellets. But it’s 90% not about expansion. It’s a big ask to get a pellet to fly right and be flimsy enough to expand. It’s all about cavitation. The more cavitation, the more energy is dumped and the safer things are that are beyond the target.

I started shooting PBs at 7 years old and was reading the covers off every Guns & Ammo my dad got in the mail in the 70s. I graduated to Combat Handguns magazine in the 80s. Now I "geek out" on terminal ballistics testing (airgun AND PBs) on YouTube. For some reason, terminal ballistics has been fascinating to me.

When I got more into airguns over PBs due to cost and more importantly with airguns being easier to find places to shoot, naturally I took everything I learned about PBs ballistics and scaled it WAY DOWN to better correspond it to airguns, I found many things to be the same....

Shot placement being the most important, followed by SUFFICIENT penetration, then temporary cavitation / permanent wound cavity, with expansion aiding the latter two.

Domed pellets and FMJ rounds are mostly identical...small, narrow wound tracks with wadcutter/hollow points having a much greater "splash" effect ... temporary cavitation/shock as well as a wider, though shorter permanent wound.

 

[Struckat]

Most of my shooting is with wadcutters in .177 and .22. I still get pass through @5-7 fpe.
Chippers aren’t very thick.

 

[Don.Chipmunk-slayer]

Most of my shooting is with wadcutters in .177 and .22. I still get pass through @5-7 fpe.
Chippers aren’t very thick.

Don't I know it, even longways, 3" at best. I'm not trying to eliminate pass-through shots, just wanting the pellets to do the most damage possible in the 1" of varmint they pass through.

 

[JimD]

Whatever it takes to get clean kills I suppose. But to give myself a frame of reference I started comparing cross sectional area damaged versus bigger animals where I had at least more opinions if not data. I forget the exact area equivalent between squirrels and deer but I remember a 177 hole in a squirrel was within the range of what most consider acceptable for deer. And experience says it works fine. On that sort of basis even a 177 hole would be overkill on a chipmunk.

 

[6gun]

Over the years I've tested on citrus fruit, wet magazines, the unending supply of cotton tails in my youth, plumbers putty and duct seal.

Plumbers putty has been pretty close to what I've found in cotton tails and some squirrels that got shot lengthwise. It's how I came to use Crow Magnums within a certain range parameter.

Now, my power levels have escalated and my abilities too. I never find projectiles from game anymore. The days of 700 fps or less are long gone.

 

[MongooseV8]

The best thing on the market today for chipmunks has to be the JSB KO MK3 10g at 900-1050fps. No pellet will come close in such a tiny critter.

But for pellets; in our "field testing" the 22Cal Hades and the 22/25Cal Hunter Extremes and Crow Magnums have the best energy transfer into ground squirrels. They deform well and usually pass through but not by a lot depending on fps distance target etc.

All that being said even a domed JSB or Barracuda going fast enough can have a dramatic affect while pesting. Speed has a key role in terminal performance. My main varmint rigs push VMaxs at ~4200fps and disappear ground squirrels in an instant. My slower normal speed setups leave some large pieces behind. I have found pcp ammos to behave in a very similar fashion, just scaled waaaaay down. And you are certainly correct, there is no medium that can replace the real thing.

 

[jetpopt]

I have considered shooting a freshly roadkilled pest to see what a given pellet and power combination would do. After all, the thing is already dead. The catch is that I would want to do it right onsite, and that would be an illegal place to shoot even a low-powered air gun.

Unless it is on the private road I have legal access to...but not much roadkill on it due to light traffic volume.

Some of the public roads have hotspots where you have to play dodgem with roadkilled animals--or parts of animals--when driving. Prairie dogs galore!