Pellet Speed Obsession

[Nick47]

Seems a lot of air gunners are obsessed with FPS. I have the WC .25 Compact with an AMP Reg. Came from FX set up to fire 25.4 grain JSB Exact pellets at 870-890 FPS. For most situations, at least in my case, this seems to be adequate strike force. Wouldn't it be more prudent to purchase a rifle designed for more power to shoot the heavier grain pellets than to push a pellet gun beyond its designed limits through tinkering?. In wooded areas, such as upstate SC, 100 yd shots are not the norm. So I would think, 40-50 yards out, 25.4 grain pellets moving at 870 FPS would be adequate. Personally, I think pellet design would improve velocities just as much as increased pressure. Not as large of a selection in 25 and 30 cal formats as compared to 22 Cal. Also, had to send my rifle back to FX USA. They have had it for past 6 weeks. Waiting on AMP Regulators to come in. Apparently, there are issues with this new technology. Creeping seems to be a problem. It certainly was in my case.

 

[crittahitta]

Unfortunately for the uninformed "speed sells" not accuracy. It takes buying an airgun or two to figure this out. Now after many mistakes i have a few powerful guns that shoots heavier pellets accurate.

 

[Glem.Chally]

Its probably similar to a car analogy, 150hp gets you to work just fine. Some tinkering and research and time and get another 40hp. They both get you there just fine but now that car is "yours". I dont know if that makes any sense.

 

[edosan]

Sorry to read about your WC, bummer!

if you shoot 40 - 60 - even 80 yards you have a lot practical alternatives .. if you are shooting beyond 100 yards then your real accurate options are reduced specially on windy days, and then is when Slugs Excel, and slugs need (so far as testers are saying) speeds over 900 fps, and MOA accurate starting at 23gn (in the 0.22 case), but been better @ 26gn probably is why we are seeing several post of tweeking for more speed- Slugs are in beta test today, and info is confusing. In that case getting a new airgun that with more FPE for 0.22 is not worth it for slugs (at least in 0.22) if you are testing, you just add another variable (too many already).

Pushing the limits is what make us better!

 

[Nick47]

Kinda of like computers when they first came out. Adding ram video cards etc. Trying to make them faster. Next purchase will more than likely be 30 cal to press the limits a little more. Question, can you push 33 gr pellets/slugs out to 100 yd at 820-830 Fps?

 

[Bob_O]

Energy is directly tied to the weight and speed of a pellet/ slug.

For me I am not tuning for energy but rather velocity. I will shoot whatever weight is ideal for my barrels twist rate, and tune for the velocity that makes that slug stable. Whatever energy I get as a result is what I get.

 

[Nick47]

Bob, so why don't air gun mfg, FX for example, increase there velocities? If the rifle can be tuned to a higher velocity, why don't they do that in the first place? And, why don't pellet mfg disclose stability speed ranges? Understand what you are saying. Just don't understand the mystery at arriving at optimum performance, so to speak. 

 

[Bob_O]

I do believe the rifles are tuned to shoot the "standard" weight pellet at the velocity that will give good performance while also giving high shot count.

One of the questions in the original post talked about better shape improving velocity. Well, not out of the muzzle. 

If I shoot a 21gr diabolo pellet and shoot a 21gr slug immediately after on the same tune, they both leave the muzzle at the same velocity.

However, the pellet will lose speed down range at a faster rate due to it's lower BC.

 

[Tweeter]

I think they assume that most who buy a .22 airgun will be shooting 16 and 18 grain pellets so they tune their guns at speeds that will work with those. I would bet that for every few "tinkerers" you read about, there are 100 people that bought the gun and just shoot it how it arrives from the factory. FX isn't going to tune the wildcat to shoot 34g Beasts out of the box because most who buy the wildcat wont be shooting those. I think it comes down to business and what sells.

I say tinker on! I think a lot of the advancements we are seeing with airguns comes directly from people tinkering, tuning and sharing their results.

 

[Nick47]

Tx Bob I understand. So you give up some shot count to increase velocity in order to push heavier grain pellets/slugs. Do you use slugs or pellets when you are working the farms? 

 

[Bob_O]

I shoot slugs mostly now.

Yes, using more air per shot will affect the shot count.

The shot count on my Crown 22 was about 110 out of the box. Now it's about 55 at max power tune.

 

[Nick47]

Tweeter, I agree with you. In fact I am sitting on a Huma Regulator. On the other hand, too much tinkering and I would be better off adding another rifle for a specific hunting condition. After all, tinkering can get expensive. Especially if you screw up.

 

[Nick47]

Ok Bob. You the man. Exactly what is a max power tune?

 

[Long_Shot]

I'm with Bob_O. I prefer slugs mostly. I've wanted more velocity for that one reason. 

Pellets @ 950 FPS in my .25 works fine for me. 

I've found that in my stock .25 cal. for HP slugs to preform properly down range (beyond 80 yards) that I just need more velocity. 

They shoot extremely accurate. Just don't expand with a violent energy dumping "stop". 

By "stop" I mean the massive expansion that only comes from an "instant velocity slow down" that takes place in approximately the first 1/2" of penetration on a small pest.

A lighter thinner .22 cal. is far easier to get to expand with that violent energy dumping "stop", less mass involved. 

That's why I want more velocity anyway............

 

[edosan]

Kinda of like computers when they first came out. Adding ram video cards etc. Trying to make them faster. Next purchase will more than likely be 30 cal to press the limits a little more. Question, can you push 33 gr pellets/slugs out to 100 yd at 820-830 Fps?

What cal? You mean hitting @ 100 yards at 820 - 830 fps? Pellet no, slug almost

Just changing the BC

Slug

Pellet

playing with numbers here: https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/standard



If you mean if you can push at starting speed of 820 fps up to 100 yards...of course you can.

 

[Nick47]

Tx edosan, I saved it. 

 

[Bob_O]

Ok Bob. You the man. Exactly what is a max power tune?

The most power my gun can make without mods and not exceeding manufacturer's precautions.

 

[heavy-impact]

Modifying your gun can increase efficiency especially in the smaller calibers. I was able to reduce reg pressure by 25bar and keep the same velocity just by reshaping the barrel transfer port and pellet probe on my Impact. Manufacturers go for good enough because faster manufacturing lowers the cost per unit and increases profit. A straight hole can be drilled in two seconds where contouring by hand would add 20 minutes. Many mods can be done for free, they just require a little of your time.

I live in Spartanburg.

 

[Bob_O]

I would like to try that, maybe this summer.

 

[Centercut]

Yep, accuracy trumps power every time. I do realize that in order to shoot slugs if that's your thing, you need to crank up the power to gain accuracy. Also, if you want to shoot the .22 RD Monsters accurately, you need to crank up the power to gain accuracy. But what I sometimes don't understand is the quest for an extra 40 or 50 FPS in something like a "normal" .22 shooting JSB 18.1 pellets.

I'm pretty sure if I shoot at 860 to 870 FPS and am shooting around 30 FPE, its just as good for hunting or target shooting as if I had cranked it up to 910 to 915 FPS. I'm also thinking the squirrels won't know if the muzzle energy is 30 or 32 FPE, and that extra drop of an inch at 100 yards really doesn't mean much. Its the consistency that counts. Will the gun ALWAYS shoot the same holdover for a given distance? That's the question more than "can I get an extra couple of foot pounds out of the gun?" If you can't hit the target, you can't kill the target... 

Shooting at 30 FPE gives me more shots, the gun feels better, like its in harmony, air isn't wasted, and its easier to cock since the HST isn't adjusted up as high, etc. I'm speaking from my experience with the Cricket mini Carbine, but I'm sure its applicable to most other guns as well. Nick and I both hit paintballs (0.68 inch diameter) consistently at 65 yards with our minis, and we both shoot around 865 (me) and 880 (Nick). Other than losing efficiency, and possibly accuracy, I don't know what the benefit of shooting at 915 FPS or higher would be? Both of us get approx. 70 shots per 250 bar fill. 

And remember that Ted won EBR a few years ago shooting his .25 Impact at approx. 835 FPS with the Mk2s...