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Pellet groups at 100y outdoors in very light conditions

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Tom, if you are getting actual visible lead from cleaning your barrel you are waiting too long to clean it.

If you shorten up the interval and still get visible lead, you have something that needs work on your barrel. Bad crowns, tight chokes, very abrupt chokes, or tight spots in the barrel are the usual suspects. Some can be fixed, some can’t.

Lots of airgun barrels have tight spots near the breach from lathe jaws or spiders that were too tight during machining. It’s extremely easy to put a tight spot in a 16 mm barrel. I can’t imagine how easy it would be to put a constricted area in to a very thin FX barrel. Those tight spots reduce the size of the pellet and will often produce lead deposits in the areas after the tight spot where the pellet is loose and rattles down the barrel til it comes back in full contact at the choke.

Lead is a material that forms extremely easy and it will not rebound to it’s original size after passing through a tight spot. It is reshaped and it will stay that way.

If you make a block to simulate the setscrews on the breech blocks used by many guns and find a good fitting gauge pin for the barrel, you will notice that after tightening the set screws to a very mild torque…you will no longer be able to insert the gauge pin. The setscrews will have created restrictions that will reshape the pellet as it passes through and it will lose full contact with the interior of the barrel til it hits the choke. If you tighten them hard enough it will make permanent restrictions.

Mike
 
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Even with a good barrel and good pellets….you can still get flyers.

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Im curious why people think I tell my customers not to bother sorting for head size, weighing, or anything else?  

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How Sorting By Rolling Works
 
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Mike 

I just want to make sure I understand some of your comments. So the set screws that hold the barrel in the action, actually can affect the shape and diameter of the inside of the barrel? Especially if over tightened? I don’t tighten any screws real tight…I usually snug them up with my thumb about halfway along the Allen wrench.

Was I interpreting your comments correctly?

Congratulations on winning Benchrest, I saw Pete and Neil yesterday and they were talking about your success. Pete got his mojo back, and shot a decent round. He beat both Neil and I by one shot, which hasn’t happened all year.


mike
 
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Some more questions and confirmations.

I think this is why AZ glued his barrels into actions for years. At least one of the reasons, I can see other advantages.

If you have actions screws that are too tight, say assembled at the factory with too much vigor. If you release the pressure and retighten them properly, Will the barrel rebound back to its original, or close to original roundness? I remove my barrels to clean, would leaving the barrel off for a while help alleviate any previous over pressurization of screws?

Do you lube projectiles?

Do you have a crystal ball, and a swami hat?

I would think that winning rimfire Benchrest nationals would be exponentially more difficult than winning field target nationals. I would compare it to winning worlds for field target. Possibly more difficult, Which is hard to imagine.

mike
 
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Steel is somewhat resilient…so you can slightly deform it and it can spring back. It doesn’t take much to put a permanent tight spot in a 16mm barrel, though. 

Im sure that is why AZ epoxied in the barrels.

I always lube slugs…and sometimes lube pellets.

It’s impossible to know what accuracy improvement was left on the table with a barrel that has a restriction…because all you can do is get another barrel and make sure you don’t create any tight spots….and of course that new barrel may have other differences that make a direct comparison between the two difficult or futile.

Mike 


 
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Yes exactly and you triumphed with your own hand built Airgun against all of the worlds top rimfire shooters. It must’ve been absolutely scandalous. And you must’ve been absolutely smiling. And I have no other details we only chatted about it for a couple minutes.

Do you think they will let you compete again? If they do all the guys that throw dollars at that hobby…omg $50 per box rimfire Ammo on the grey market…Plus $5000 rifles…Not to mention scopes.

mike
 
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Mike…All the worlds best Rimfire shooters were not there. I wish they were. Nonetheless there were some competent unlimited shooters present. Lou is actually no slouch and is among the 1% or so of unlimited Rimfire shooters in the world that has shot an outdoor 2500 in ARA competition. I was actually at that match to witness it…which was really cool to see. He used the same rifle and ammo at the N50 Nats. He’s a good guy and a great shooter. I was happy to run neck and neck with him in Pro with an Airgun.

Mike 
 
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Yes, I suppose with Covid attendance would’ve been way down. Still an incredible accomplishment when you put all the pieces of the puzzle together.

however, let’s be completely candid. You did it with a machine that you not only designed and built…with projectiles that you also designed and manufactured. And you did it in their world, against their equipment. Very very expensive equipment and ammo.


mike

mike
 
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Tom, if you are getting actual visible lead from cleaning your barrel you are waiting too long to clean it.

If you shorten up the interval and still get visible lead, you have something that needs work on your barrel. Bad crowns, tight chokes, very abrupt chokes, or tight spots in the barrel are the usual suspects. Some can be fixed, some can’t.

Lots of airgun barrels have tight spots near the breach from lathe jaws or spiders that were too tight during machining. It’s extremely easy to put a tight spot in a 16 mm barrel. I can’t imagine how easy it would be to put a constricted area in to a very thin FX barrel. Those tight spots reduce the size of the pellet and will often produce lead deposits in the areas after the tight spot where the pellet is loose and rattles down the barrel til it comes back in full contact at the choke.

Lead is a material that forms extremely easy and it will not rebound to it’s original size after passing through a tight spot. It is reshaped and it will stay that way.

If you make a block to simulate the setscrews on the breech blocks used by many guns and find a good fitting gauge pin for the barrel, you will notice that after tightening the set screws to a very mild torque…you will no longer be able to insert the gauge pin. The setscrews will have created restrictions that will reshape the pellet as it passes through and it will lose full contact with the interior of the barrel til it hits the choke. If you tighten them hard enough it will make permanent restrictions.

Mike
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Mike,

Thanks for taking my call today. I have a whole new appreciation for LW automated barrel making process, especially as they relate to air guns. From your post above: "Lots of air gun barrels have tight spots near the breach from lathe jaws or spiders that were too tight during machining. It’s extremely easy to put a tight spot in a 16 mm barrel. " Also, the importance of having concentric barrels from breech to muzzle.

I suspect I could have some tight spots in the chamber area, that 'might' possibly be causing the barrels to lead up fairly often after 100-150 rounds or so. I can live with the frequent cleaning, because when I do clean them, both rifles are very accurate. But, in talking with you today, I always wonder how it could be better with a thorough barrel inspection or a custom new barrel. I love the rabbit hole! 

I wish I had a local knowledgeable gun smith that I could ask to take a look at my barrel(s). Not sure who around can machine new AG barrels, but I will email or PM Scott ( Motorhead ) and see what he thinks. 

Thanks again for the knowledge transfer!

Tom




 
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