Pellet Accuracy VS Slugs

[jking]

Here's something that keeps popping into mind. I keep seeing some what I would call decent groups at 100yds with the slugs though not any better than some of my 25cal or 30cal pellet groups. Let me back up and say first that I'm not trying to get anything started here because I am actually considering a slug set up as well but I keep wondering in the back of my mind if it's really going to be that much of a benefit, considering the cost and the experimenting and head ache's, ( thanks to the guys that are leading the way though, sincerely).

Ok, so lets say these slugs groups are 1.25" at 100yds. The furthest slug to the left side of the group continues in a straight line and the slug that hits the paper furthest on the right continues in a straight line. I don't know so that why I'm asking, what is this group going to look like at 150-200yds? I don't know that at 200yds you could just double the size the 100yd group. That doesn't appear to be the case when I shoot say a .30" to.40" five shot group at 60yds and then at 120, well lets not go there because I know that answer. hehe. I'm willing to concede though that the slugs with there better BC is probably going to make a better group if there is some wind to contend with and also due the fact the drop won't be as much as my lofting pellets.

I guess my point is, at 150-200 is the chance of hitting a target with a slug say the size of a prairie dog as easy as it looks in the videos and is it that much easier to do than a well tuned good shooting 25 or 30cal pellet? If I say anymore I know for sure I'll be rambling so I'll stop here.

Jking

 

[Hepotter]

Accuracy-wise, I've never seen any conclusive proof that slugs in the air gun weight range have any advantage over pellets of the same weight...at any range. The real difference is the person pulling the trigger more so than the projectile being used. To be honest I've never seen any animal deader from a slug than from a pellet at any distance.

Everyone has their opinions and preferences. I respect that. Shoot what makes you feel good and gives you confidence. 



Kindly 'Ol Uncle 

 

[stoti]

You can shoot great groups with either. Slugs aren’t magic! There’s no denying that a slug with a BC triple that of a pellet is going to fly better at distance and in wind. Heavier slugs will carry energy farther too. I can shoot the heavier slugs at higher velocities than I can with say the 33.95 JSB because it’s best accuracy is found in the 830-860fps range. The faster the projectile gets to the target, the less time it has to be affected by external forces. 

Stoti

 

[ironlion269]

BC is not only a key to understanding the increased stability of a slug versus a pellet in identical conditions (bucks wind better), but the BC also has a great influence on the reduced energy bleed of the projectile over distance. Pellet shape not only creates drag to enhance stability (originally out of smooth bores) but it also causes the pellet to shed velocity, and hence energy, at a rate much higher than a slug of equal caliber and weight.

Upshot is that as distance to the target increases, so does the "energy advantage" enjoyed by a slug of equal weight and diameter to a specified pellet. Accurate slugs convey a substantial advantage in hunting as a result.

 

[T3PRanch]

It is easier to picture the relationship if you think of a Tennis ball (solid projectile) vs a Shuttlecock (diabolo pellet).

Way back in the late 1960's OAM .22 Round ball "pellets" were FAR superior to any pellet of the day in my Benjamin 342.

I took coyote's with them.

 

[Guest]

Ok, so lets say these slugs groups are 1.25" at 100yds. The furthest slug to the left side of the group continues in a straight line and the slug that hits the paper furthest on the right continues in a straight line. I don't know so that why I'm asking, what is this group going to look like at 150-200yds? I don't know that at 200yds you could just double the size the 100yd group. That doesn't appear to be the case when I shoot say a .30" to.40" five shot group at 60yds and then at 120, well lets not go there because I know that answer. hehe. I'm willing to concede though that the slugs with there better BC is probably going to make a better group if there is some wind to contend with and also due the fact the drop won't be as much as my lofting pellets.

=) You are right in assuming that the group size does not double when the distance doubles.

Wind is not a constant. All OTHER things being equal the slug will travel to the target much more quickly than the pellet because of its BC. This gives the wind longer to act on the pellet, since wind is not constant there is a random chance that more (or less) wind will act on your pellet over the now doubled distance. Wind also changes direction. The longer you give it to change direction, the more likely it is to actually do that. So that is wind.

Spin drift is ALMOST a constant over distance but it operates in one direction, depending on rate and direction of spin, so whatever spin drift there is will drag the group in one direction. It isn't much but it is part of the picture and can be measured and calculated.

Coriolis effect is another thing which will affect the shot depending upon the direction in which you are shooting, and over distance it will have a larger effect. Since it varies with the direction you are shooting it will make the group move around on the target in ways you will not expect unless you have studied it some for your particular setup and you always know which direction you are shooting.

The big advantage of slugs over pellets is the BC. That is where you make your gains. Less time in the air, less time for these factors to impact your group size at a given range.

The decision about slugs vs pellets really boils down to two things and both of them are about the BC. Answer these two questions and you will know whether or not you want to go to slugs or pellets. First, is the additional accuracy worth the additional expense and effort to shoot slugs? Second, do my shooting conditions (principally population density and safety issues) limit the ranges at which I will be taking my shots? You have to decide if you want the additional safety of shooting pellets or the additional range and accuracy of slugs.

 

[ImpactX]

If you watch Ted's video. His 30 cal is hole on hole at 50 yards and .6x at 100yards. I have not seen any slug do that yet. Ted said his impact x 30 cal is his most accurate and the most accurate gun he ever saw. That's saying a lot. My impact 25 cal is hole on hole at 50 yards..I don't have a 100 yard range so can't test 100 yards. I've seen slug that make leaf clovers at 50. So not as accurate as pellets. Maybe on windy day slug can out perform pellets. 

 

[AirSupply]

I have a 700mm .30 Impact also and it’s very accurate. I shoot 26g slugs in my .22 HP RedWolf. 

The difference is the .30 cal at 100y will shoot a great group but even in a very slight breeze that group won’t be spot on my point of aim. Of course I’ll do my best to read the wind but you learn from your first shot or two and adjust accordingly. Have a look at Teds latest video where he misses a few times to start because he hasn’t got a handle on the breeze I’m sure with slugs he would have held straight on target and made those shots. The breeze would not have been a factor 

The slugs are much easier to get close to your point of aim on the first shot which when your hunting is the one that counts. This is what I’ve found with slugs. You make more kill shots at distances past 50-60m even in a light breeze and a lot more when you get out to 100m. Even though the group on paper might be slightly bigger at 100y compared to pellets

 

[edosan]

I guess my point is, at 150-200 is the chance of hitting a target with a slug say the size of a prairie dog as easy as it looks in the videos and is it that much easier to do than a well tuned good shooting 25 or 30cal pellet? If I say anymore I know for sure I'll be rambling so I'll stop here.

Jking

Hi J, IME yes, slugs have more energy @ impact, flight straightener (less hold) and manage the wind better, that make them more accurate than pellets over 100y with wind, ergo more chances to hit your target. Shooting anything over 150y is not easy at all.

Here you can see a group of Ernest Rowe @ 200y shooting 40gn slugs, IME no pellet can do that @ that distance.

I test a lot too, and I came to the conclusion that up to 100Y i will shoot pellets with normal conditions, over that slugs...and according to that, I have 1 AG for pellets and another for slugs (different setups and power). I do hunt a lot, just do not like to show pictures or videos killing prays (any). But I do not judge those who do it (I even watch some sometimes)

BTW IME @100 yards pellets are more accurate than slugs with normal wind conditions 

 

[edosan]

If you watch Ted's video. His 30 cal is hole on hole at 50 yards and .6x at 100yards. I have not seen any slug do that yet. Ted said his impact x 30 cal is his most accurate and the most accurate gun he ever saw. That's saying a lot. My impact 25 cal is hole on hole at 50 yards..I don't have a 100 yard range so can't test 100 yards. I've seen slug that make leaf clovers at 50. So not as accurate as pellets. Maybe on windy day slug can out perform pellets.

You have seen too little then

There are plenty of examples of submoa groups on slugs, is just that this accuracy with them is new (2019 new)

50y 5 shoot group 27gn slug (nail wide is 0.5 inches)

same @ 100y

 

[Dairyboy]

As others have stated in no wind I would have no issue shooting my .30 Flex to 150yds with pellets. Throw in a variable wind and your chasing your tail trying to get the windage right. That's why I'm moving to slugs cause most my squirrel shooting is in wind as we get wind in spring and that's the only time of the year squirrels are out.

Also there is a game changing discovery recently on slugs and maybe other high powered pellet shooters. Myself and a few others are testing something out that Knifemaker has discovered by chance. So far we are 3 for 3 on quite amazing results. I'll leave my results here. This is 8 shots at 55yds with my Flex .30 shooting NSA 50gr slugs at 975fps. There sized to .299 and lightly lubed with 10wt silicone oil. Alittle promise with some touching but wild fliers through out. 

Here's now 10 shots 5 min apart from the previous group with same slugs and only the new discovery in effect. Same tune and distance. Pretty amazing! Can't share anything about it at the moment as im sworn to secrecy for the time being until more testing is done. But that's 10 shots 8 in a hole smaller than 1/2" and 2 "fliers" opening it to an inch which could have been me as I wasn't perfectly steady just shooting prone off a bipod.

 

[Centercut]

Here you can see a group of Ernest Rowe @ 200y shooting 40gn slugs, IME no pellet can do that @ that distance.

I can see the 200Y group, and it looks good. If it wasn’t as good as possible, Ernest wouldn’t have posted it. So here we have a very good shooter, with the best equipment money can buy, shooting from a bench with a rest, wind probably calm, and if he was shooting at ground squirrels, he’d have hit 2 out of 6, assuming the two in the middle are where he was aiming. And this group was under laboratory conditions imagine the group size prone position in the field with wind!

This goes back to my recent post in the Hunting section. NO ONE can shoot 1.5 inch groups at 200 yards with an Airgun in the field, slugs or pellets... Those other 4 would have either injured the animal or missed and he would have ran back in his hole. My primary take away from this is that if anyone hits a ground squirrel at 200 yards in the head or vitals, the shot was very lucky... IMHO only. 

 

[Long_Shot]

centercut - You're probably right about most people aren't going to be able to do that well at 200 yards.

But with a hot .25 cal. and the RIGHT slug 200 yards is not a big deal. 

Old photo. All consecutive shots. Held wind-age for the 4 holes in that 12 oz, can on a stake. The last two pasted right trough the 2x6 Cedar block. This with a stock Cricket .25 cal.

I've shot lots of 200 yard groups in the wind recently. 2.5" to 3.75" for most with a couple going 4+" and a 2.125" best. Not photo worthy for me. 

That's with a 75 FPE gun - 38gr.@ 940 FPS. A work in progress. 

Slugs work. 

 

[Centercut]

@long_shot, I stand corrected. With that group you'd have hit 4 out of 5 ground squirrels, pretty good odds. Since its no big deal, how about you show us a string of 5 shots groups at 200 yards, 5 or 6 should be enough, all shot consecutively, nothing cherry picked. Would they all be under 2 inches?

I knew I should have kept that .25 Cricket! That is exceptional shooting, was it with a bipod from a prone position, or maybe bucket and sticks? 

 

[edosan]

Shooting anything air on 200y MOA or less is difficult, no argue there. The thing is using slugs you do not need to hit the exact head or heart to produce an instant kill (more energy, bigger shockwave + hollowpoint). Unless of course you just scratch the surface, that is one big difference with pellets (on small game), pellets can hurt / wound and not kill @ long distances ... slugs usually are more effective IME. Not saying you have always instant kill, but the % of kills is far more than pellets @ longdistances. 

 

[bucketboy]

The decision about slugs vs pellets really boils down to two things and both of them are about the BC. Answer these two questions and you will know whether or not you want to go to slugs or pellets. First, is the additional accuracy worth the additional expense and effort to shoot slugs? Second, do my shooting conditions (principally population density and safety issues) limit the ranges at which I will be taking my shots? You have to decide if you want the additional safety of shooting pellets or the additional range and accuracy of slugs.

^^^ this is all you need to know^^^

while I will almost certainly give slugs a go, personally I can never envisage a situation where I will hunt much beyond 75yrds and for safety reasons I will not use slugs on birds lofting birds. Under those conditions a pellet is ideal. If I do use slugs it will be exclusively for rabbits most likely with night vision as the flatter trajectory of slugs accounts for the difficultly of range finding during darkness.

Bb

 

[jking]

Thanks guys, good constructive feedback from several points of view. I'm always the one to experiment so I'll probably venture down this rabbit hole too. I think the slugs might be a good fit for the windy country I live in. Now the big decision.... 25cal or 22cal. Kind of leaning more to the 22cal in a Impact. Already have a great shooting Crown currently outfitted with a 30cal barrel that I'm really impressed with and also have the original 25cal barrel that came with it. I'm in the process of selling off a couple of guns to get there... wink wink.

Jimmy

 

[Long_Shot]

@long_shot, I stand corrected. With that group you'd have hit 4 out of 5 ground squirrels, pretty good odds. Since its no big deal, how about you show us a string of 5 shots groups at 200 yards, 5 or 6 should be enough, all shot consecutively, nothing cherry picked. Would they all be under 2 inches?

I knew I should have kept that .25 Cricket! That is exceptional shooting, was it with a bipod from a prone position, or maybe bucket and sticks?

That is obviously a cherry pick windless day for my stock Cricket. It just shows what type accuracy can be achieved. Shot off sand bags on the roof of a VW Jetta. 

I would expect groups closer to these. But I've not tried the 30.5gr. that shoots sub MOA at 100 yards consistently at 200 yards. 

 

To busy getting my converted .35 to .25 cal. Cricket going. That's the one I say 200 yards is no big deal for.

A 38gr. slug going 940 FPS gets there pretty fast. 

Shooting anything air on 200y MOA or less is difficult, no argue there. The thing is using slugs you do not need to hit the exact head or heart to produce an instant kill (more energy, bigger shockwave + hollowpoint). Unless of course you just scratch the surface, that is one big difference with pellets (on small game), pellets can hurt / wound and not kill @ long distances ... slugs usually are more effective IME. Not saying you have always instant kill, but the % of kills is far more than pellets @ longdistances.

Perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 100% accurate. IMO......

 

[Centercut]

Thanks Long Shot. Interested in seeing the end product with that .35 to .25 conversion. What a great idea! All porting and valving already in place except for the .25 barrel port. So you obviously want to shoot heavier slugs at higher speeds... keep us informed on that one!

 

[Doug-T]

You mention those YouTube videos make it look easy. Something tells me they're not showing all of the misses in between the hits.