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PCP manufacturers need to up the Game

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The whole idea about airguns is staying subsonic and staying quiet. If going supersonic for high power, you will not be able to beat powder burners. Airguns cannot compete in the high power supersonic game at a competitive price point against powder burners and stay as comapct and light weight. My CZ 452 American shoots Aguila Sniper SubSonic 60-grain .22 bullets at 900 FPS with 108 FPE and sounds no louder than my BSA Lonestar .25 without a moderator. The SSS round uses the rifle barrel as the suppressor, so that eliminates extra cost and weight as well. The bullet is designed to tumble on impact and is deadlier than an expanding bullet. The CZ 452 weighs about 6 pounds. If I need more power than the BSA Lonestar .25 provides, and I want to stay airgun quiet, then I have the CZ 452/Aguila SSS combo, more killing power, smaller size, lighter weight, no air supply issues, and the legal requirement of "no suppressors" while hunting game does not apply as the barrel does that job already.

A brick of 500 rounds of Aguila SSS should cost you no more than $60. I am sure that airgun manufacturers already know that anybody with a good .22LR bolt gun that wants to go "airgun quiet at subsonic speed" and have over twice the FPE and a lot higher BC and less wind drift to boot just might go that route instead. I intend to stay with that system when I want to up my power over the BSA Lonestar .25.
 
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Each to their own. IMO, we have plenty of metallic cartridge rifles for power. I like being able to shoot a 20 fpe air rifle quietly in the back yard. I would hate to see the industry merged with firearms, and then have to deal with the same gun control/NRA/political mess we have on that front. Let's be happy with what we have and keep a low profile. A lot of development in new designs and enhanced operating systems could be killed with regulatory intervention if we push power.
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EXACTLY! 100% agree. semi auto’s and FULL AUTOS will put airgunning into a category of higher regulations and restrictions. mark my words. nobody needs a full auto ANYTHING!
 
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I agreed with Motorhead -- I need to up my modify game..I still have some space for a few extra machines..👊. I agreed with all who think More power is not needed if you don't have the space to used ..that is why I have my pellet shooters..but sometimes in my collection I would like to have a intermediate between.18g pellet n 55g bullet..in the country there is no neighbor's so a bit of more power is great if you like shooting cans pretty far.and don't want to use the 50" long toys that day.
 
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Even if you think more power is needed, there is a selection of guns, albeit a small selection that will do the job. Other manufacturers may follow over time, but only the real innovators are in the stratosphere of Airgun power at the moment. As others gain experience, they'll follow but in their own time. The innovators will continue to innovate while the followers continue to follow.
 
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Were is everybody getting this golden rule of 840 FPS for the best accuracy????? My 25 shoots JSB 33 at 940 FPS, My 22s shoot 18 gr at 910 FPS , MY 177s like 940 FPS ,,, Where in the rule book is this 940FPS at...

Mike
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It is a general rule of thumb to be used as a starting point, nothing more.



My Impacts in .22 with the RDM pellets and .25 with the MKII pellets both run at 960 to 965 and are very happy at that speed.
 
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Were is everybody getting this golden rule of 840 FPS for the best accuracy????? My 25 shoots JSB 33 at 940 FPS, My 22s shoot 18 gr at 910 FPS , MY 177s like 940 FPS ,,, Where in the rule book is this 940FPS at...

Mike
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It is a general rule of thumb to be used as a starting point, nothing more.



My Impacts in .22 with the RDM pellets and .25 with the MKII pellets both run at 960 to 965 and are very happy at that speed.
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Exactly. A general "starting point". Nothing more.

Emu-"Best speed for accuracy with pellets is around 840 fps."

An example of taking such a general rule for a starting point and touting it as a limiting fact. I have several .177's shooting at or just over 1000fps. Acccuracy has not fallen off or I would drop the velocity. I generally set up my guns by increasing velocity until I notice a drop in accuracy. It doesn't NECESSARILY happen magically once one passes the magic 8XX velocity but might for some guns. Everyone will probably see a bit of a different result according to powerplant/barrel harmonics/etc.
 
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I would much rather see the manufacturers focus on increasing reliability and precision/"accuracy" than speed/power. I think reliability is broadly lacking more than speed is, and lack of reliability has greater negative consequences. Unreliability has ruined my day more than once, while I've never been in need of more speed/power than my gun can produce. Also I could much more easily work around a lack of power, but I can't shoot at all with a blown o-ring or reg malfunction.

PS: More power can be easily achieved by using a firearm instead of an airgun, plus the firearm can do it extremely reliably and at 1/5th to 1/3rd the cost.
 
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I don't need more speed. I can shoot up to 4000 fps with guns in my safe that are more accurate. But they are not quiet or legal to shoot in my yard. I would like to see more dependable lower priced guns. When guys at work hear what we have tied up in BB guns they flip out. If they could get started inexpensive they may get hooked.
 
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Were is everybody getting this golden rule of 840 FPS for the best accuracy????? My 25 shoots JSB 33 at 940 FPS, My 22s shoot 18 gr at 910 FPS , MY 177s like 940 FPS ,,, Where in the rule book is this 940FPS at...

Mike
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You get your best BC between 850 and 900. BC starts to really go south past 950
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The thread Trigger Time With A Hot .177 suggests that for many it seems to be be more productive to shoot than calculate.
 
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Sorry,

More power to get what? 

Best speed for accuracy with pellets is around 840 fps. 

As mentioned in the following ling, killing power in Air rifles is not fully related with fps.

Increase in speed is not directly related with killing power.

So, I do not find much sense on getting more power.

Look at this:

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/final-formula-for-obtaining-the-hunting-energy-units-on-air-rifles/?referrer=1
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About 9 years ago I bough for my third son an FX Royal 400 in .22 Cal from Allan Zazadny. When I talk to him I told him that I would like the rifle to be tunned to shot with a lot of power. He told me that an excess of air in the chamber causes turbulence that afect the accuracy.

From that time to now, I have confirmed that , depending on many factor of each rifle, such as weight, designe, lenght, (bla, bla ,bla), when you pull the trigger the rifle moves because the release of air. We might not call it recoil as in the case of fire arms, but the fact is that that movement affects accuracy.

The ideal would be to be able to stay looking in the reticle the spot you want to hit when the rifle shots without moving nor a bit.

Very low fps increses the parabole and is more difficult to have the precision at diverse distances.

So the topic is to find a sweet spot among fps (to get a good parabole) and less "movement at the shot" to assure to be "in the spot".

So accuracy do not only is related with ballistic coeficient of the pellet/slug.

For each one, for each rifle and for each pellet, the sweet spot may be different. In my particular case, I "feel" more comfortable shooting with less fps (790-850) than from (880-1100).

I have rifles like my Evanix AR6 .22 Cal, that shot the San Yang 28.5 grain pellets very accuratelly above 1000 fps. 

This is our hobbie, so anyone is able to tunne his rifles at his preferences. There´s no good or bad on that, just to make you feel ok with your rifles.



Allen Zazadny 2.1614702570.jpg
Allen Zazadny 1.1614702579.jpg





 
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While back Ted did a video about flyers (96 shots, no flyers). I think his point was that yes, pellets can be accurate at higher speeds, but may be prone to flyers. The shot of turbulence might make a difference. The only way to know, is to shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot some more. Maybe your are lucky and have your gun tuned with no turbulence at 950, and it just works!

His point in the video was to slow down and eliminate flyers. Will that work for you? only you can determine that!
 
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