PCP Leaks as a common occurrence...

[L.Leon]

Even though I’ve only been using PCPs for three years, I understand that PCPs will leak at some point. Is there a standard for this? A year, three years, or more? Some will chime in that their PCPs have held air for years and they’ve yet to change a single Oring, which is a good thing. I’m in the camp of, though I have no empirical evidence to back it up. That a high end PCP (over 1K) should have quality everything, seals, valves, regulators, etc. To not leak for a long, long time. There is a particular brand that has all kinds of leak issues quite frequently right out the box or after very brief ownership. Just based on the amount of posts on leaks. I won’t even consider the brand. It’s disconcerting that so many take it as normal to have these problems. I know some will defend and that’s all good. I get that there is a larger base of this particular brand out there. But can you name other brands with as prevalent a QC leak issue? Yes customer service is great, but I want to shoot, not talk to a tech... that why I spent the big coin. Thoughts?

 

[biohazardman]

What you hear here on the forum is only the very tiniest percentile of airgun sales. People are far more likely to come here looking for a cure or fix than those who have a perfect product which is by far more of the norm. So, it's not really a decent comparison of the thousands of guns purchased, who we never hear from, to the very few guns that leak who come here. We who are members here also mod our guns, often from day one, so have more problems than those who just shoot them. Just something to think about when one thinks a company actually has a problem it is likely a far smaller problem than one would imagine.

As far as when the gun will leak, how long they will last there are too many variables to say. O-rings are cheap and none are perfect even when new all have some small defect. Some guns are seldom used and are shot in clean climate controlled areas. Still others get used allot and are shot in various degrees of dust, dirt moisture and other filth as well as extreme temperature changes. O-rings deteriorate with exposure to oxygen so do have a finite life but with a little silicone grease they will last longer so long as they do not get contaminated by dust dirt swarf ect. Yet for the most part, barring a manufacturing defect, they usually last for many years. So leaks seldom occur in most of our guns.

 

[BlackICE]

It depends on one's imagination.

If the problem was a large as some imagine it is, why is the company in question constantly having a hard time keeping guns in stock and most sell for MSRP?

The company must be doing a lot right, at least from a business perspective.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

 

[Maineiac]

I think I saw a post on here from Tony Belas once that said the percentage of rifles that came back for service was a tiny fraction of overall sales.

Head to the Daystate owners club forum and you’ll see the same thing as you see here. People tend to flock to a place where they can get help when they need it. This forum has a large percentage of FX owners for whatever reason so naturally you’ll see lots of posts - both good and bad. And let’s be honest, you’re talking about FX without mentioning the name.

 

[Yo]

Hey!!! My OLD FX guns are perfect no leaks PERIOD!!! INCLUDING A 20+ YEAR OLD TARANTULA and Royales and Bobcats and Verminators that are so old they aren't even regulated! Some of my Royales dont even have the smooth twist barrels or the power wheels yet. ABSOLUTELY ZERO LEAK ISSUES. That's gotta tell ya something! I own FXs that ARE RELIABLE. YO!

 

[Enkey]

Hi

95% of the leaks produced in a pcp is from the o-rings, the high pressure at which they work causes them to compress and dry out. By mounting high-quality o-rings, leaks should not appear in many years

Regards

Enkey

 

[Vetmx]

I think it also depends on the guns design. A gun with more orings and movable gadgets that are sealed with orings are going to have more leaks. They have to. You have more orings. Is it a fair trade off? Is having a supercharger and having to run 93 octane a fair trade off? To some yes, others no. I just ordered my second FX. This time I went simple. Hopefully not a leaky Pete like my previous one.

 

[Rj]

Think it's all been summed up pretty much here Mr Leon. To recap, this is a place to get help and where people come for it. Not like you can run your gut to the local mechanics for repairs. When brand x sells 5 times more than brand b, what are you going to hear more about? Think crosman here, not because there oring s are junk, because id venture to say there's 20 times more of them out there than any other brand. I think Mr. Motorhead said around 5-7 years was a good time to seriously think about replacement. Ahhh, and lets not forget the tinkerers and modders.

Little fact, Buna n has a shelf life expectancy of 15 years and urethane of 5. And thats sealed in a bag with less than 75% humidity. Not in use.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

I don't go into all the FX leak issue posts, but it almost seems like the newer guns are having more issues than the older ones. Maybe they have been getting sub standard o-rings from the supplier. Or possibly something was milled out of spec and the surfaces don't mate the way they should.

 

[BlackICE]

Or maybe their selling more guns than ever.

 

[L.Leon]

Thank you gentlemen, my perspective was/is skewed on the issue. Thanks for clarifying I can see where false impressions on a products based on a small sample size might occur. Headed over to the Daystates owners forum... thanks..! 

 

[markT]

“Pcps leaks as a common occurrence”: / my history 

1st: FX Tarantula never one issue

2nd: AirArms S410 never any issues

3rd: AirArms S200 never any issues 

4th: FX Super Swift. Went thru probably 8 gauges and finally got a gauge that didn’t leak. I had to make a crush washer from copper to make the seal at the base. 

5th: FX Streamline. Nothing but leaks sent back for warranty and FX fixed it. 

6th: FX Dreamline was leaking down but seemed to seal up on its on. 

 

[Glem.Chally]

Thank you gentlemen, my perspective was/is skewed on the issue. Thanks for clarifying I can see where false impressions on a products based on a small sample size might occur. Headed over to the Daystates owners forum... thanks..!

Didnt get the response you were hoping for?

 

[L.Leon]

Thank you gentlemen, my perspective was/is skewed on the issue. Thanks for clarifying I can see where false impressions on a products based on a small sample size might occur. Headed over to the Daystates owners forum... thanks..!

Didnt get the response you were hoping for?

And what response might that be? I found out there’s a Daystates Owners Forum... Hope had/has nothing to do with it Glem. On this forum one brand seems to have a lot of issues comparatively. Maybe in the other one it will be the other way around? The responses I got were cordial and informative, should I’ve expected otherwise? I am not bashing a brand, I just read the daily/weekly posts on various the leak issues and infer from that.

 

[Glem.Chally]

Thank you gentlemen, my perspective was/is skewed on the issue. Thanks for clarifying I can see where false impressions on a products based on a small sample size might occur. Headed over to the Daystates owners forum... thanks..!

Didnt get the response you were hoping for?

And what response might that be? I found out there’s a Daystates Owners Forum... Hope had/has nothing to do with it Glem. On this forum one brand seems to have a lot of issues comparatively. Maybe in the other one it will be the other way around? The responses I got were cordial and informative, should I’ve expected otherwise? I am not bashing a brand, I just read the daily/weekly posts on various the leak issues and infer from that.

Maybe we should find out how many of these guns/owners of these guns there are here? That should have some bearing on the topic i would think.

Like said above this is a very popular forum for fx guns/impact (as we all know). So naturally this is where people will come for info and solutions. Seems like this thread has been done before but i can't find it. Ill start a thread and see how many impact owners there are here. 

 

[markT]

I wont comment on the OP's and Chally posts.. Two sides... bla, bla, bla.

I do think there is a great opportunity for a mfg to build rifles that don't leak, don't continually have POI shifts, that are light weight, cost effective and accurate..

That's probably a hard thing to accomplish.. and Oh yea, market, market, market....and market it.

 

[L.Leon]

Went over to the Daystates owners site... crickets  . Nothing current. AGN rules.

 

[L.Leon]

I wont comment on the OP's and Chally posts.. Two sides... bla, bla, bla.

I do think there is a great opportunity for a mfg to build rifles that don't leak, don't continually have POI shifts, that are light weight, cost effective and accurate..

That's probably a hard thing to accomplish.. and Oh yea, market, market, market....and market it.

You make a great point and wrote it better than I. There are some solid PCPs that meet your criteria above. I just feel that it should be the “norm” for all PCPs above a certain price point.

 

[Centercut]

In my experience, having owned just about every make and model except an Impact, PCPs leak. Some do, some don’t. It seems the ones that use orings as dynamic seals (in addition to the reg) tend to leak more frequently than others, but all regulated guns use orings as dynamic seals in the regulator. I look at it as a fact of life and if you’re into this hobby then you do need to learn to change out the orings on your guns. Orings are very cheap, and I normally use Viton 75d when available. Some guns are easy to work on (EDGun, Cricket, most tube guns) and some not so easy (Bobcat Mk1 comes to mind). But none are overly difficult if you take your time...

 

[Maineiac]

In my experience, having owned just about every make and model except an Impact, PCPs leak. Some do, some don’t. It seems the ones that use orings as dynamic seals (in addition to the reg) tend to leak more frequently than others, but all regulated guns use orings as dynamic seals in the regulator. I look at it as a fact of life and if you’re into this hobby then you do need to learn to change out the orings on your guns. Orings are very cheap, and I normally use Viton 75d when available. Some guns are easy to work on (EDGun, Cricket, most tube guns) and some not so easy (Bobcat Mk1 comes to mind). But none are overly difficult if you take your time...

That’s a good point. Even the best, most reliable car in the world will still require some routine maintenance from time to time. Moving parts or parts under stress do wear out over time.