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PB long range vs Shooting long range with PCP

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Chukar60

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Mar 15, 2022
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Idaho, United States
My son in law owns a gun school and is working his way into the precision rifle area.
He has spent a fair amount of time behind several of my guns and really enjoys shooting them and stretching the legs on them.
He asked me the other day what distance I thought shooting a PCP would equate to shooting pb’s @ 800-1000 yards.
Honestly never gave it a thought. I am sure there is some mathematical or ballistic calculation that would arrive at an accurate answer but I thought to pose the question here as there are some serious ballistic people here and a fair amount of people who like shooting their PCP’s at distance and it may create an interesting discussion.
So, anyone have an idea or a factual answer?
 
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A little bit of a preference here because I like .30 and .357 calibers for long range shooting and we have a silhouette range with multiple berms to shoot at, but anything out to the metallic silhouette's 220 meter berms are pretty good ranges for said calibers. You play the yardages and wind holdovers, trigger and breathing, etc., just like at pb long range competitions. I'd do the same thing with a .22 slug shooter.
 
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I commented on something similar a few years ago on AGN... And the research I did compared 100Y PELLETS with airgun to .308 firearm with high BC ammo. What I found was that the drop and drift pretty much equaled out at about 600 yards for the .308 firearms, which is the most popular caliber used... If you compare high BC SLUGS from an airgun it would be different, perhaps 3:1 vice 6:1 as Scott noted above.
 
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Time of flight is a good start but pellets have inferior ballistic coefficients compared to bullets.

Comparing a friends 6x47Lapua(ish) at 1000y with a 10mph crosswind, I calculate 8 moa of wind drift. That same 10mph will blow my best long range airgun 8moa in only 93 yards. The airgun is an FX Crown MkII shooting JSB .22 25.4s at 990fps. There are better long range airguns than that, certainly, but not most.

David
 
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I was long bombing PB’s since the 1980’s and only started bombing with a PCP around 2010. Your question is a very good question and I’ve seen it here plenty of times. I’ve pondered it. Sometimes I have a vague answer. But in reality I find airguns, yes with slugs, just not quite accurate enough on a daily basis to truly make a fair comparison. If my most wicked airgun could shoot groups every day all the time that I could cover with a dime at 100 yards, I kinda like the ratio thing that Centercut spoke of. But a run of the mill .308 will outshoot and be more consistent than a airgun. Bottom line is our guns are just not accurate enough to compare. My great, but not every day airgun groups at 100 look like my average 300 yard groups with a real gun. So on our guns “good day”, I kinda like the 3:1 thing. But an airgun runs out of gas so quickly and birds flying over the range can suddenly be struck down when we start getting way out there. So the 3:1 will quickly grow when things start getting way out there.
 
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stanginthe11s said:
time of flight is the only simple way to compare the 2. BC isn't really an issue because TOF is a culmination of variables which include BC. 1/3 is a fairly accurate estimate but there are always variables that will change that.
Click to expand...
If you’ve shot at 1000 then you’ll know your major limits to accuracy are wind, equipment, wind, tune, and wind. And as a shooter, this is a skill that requires significant development.

That’s why I’m comparing BC. I didn’t say it but it should be understood that BC (aka added time of flight due to decaying velocity) is the overwhelming factor I wind drift.

In calm conditions the comparison changes and BC isn’t the driving factor. But for training shooters for 1000y shooting it seems ideal.

David
 
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dgeesaman said:
Time of flight is a good start but pellets have inferior ballistic coefficients compared to bullets.

Comparing a friends 6x47Lapua(ish) at 1000y with a 10mph crosswind, I calculate 8 moa of wind drift. That same 10mph will blow my best long range airgun 8moa in only 93 yards. The airgun is an FX Crown MkII shooting JSB .22 25.4s at 990fps. There are better long range airguns than that, certainly, but not most.

David
Click to expand...
As you pointed out, it will depend on the airgun and the PB that are being compared. If comparing a 10m airgun shooting wadcutters to a 6.5 Creedmore, it might be 1/20.

Even the round nose Diabolo shapes are not that great much past 50m. Some like to push them out to 100m+, but that is way past their recommended range. If comparing some of the best airgun projectiles (not Diabolo pellets) at their optimal for distance (subsonic) velocities with the best PB bullets at their typical velocities, 1/3 is a good approximation, and probably about as good as it gets. Though most airguns (and definitely those shooting Diabolo pellets), it will be a significantly larger spread when compared to typical long range PB projectiles.
 
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If I wanted to train for long range centerfire using a airgun I'd concentrate on how much the wind would blow the projectile rather than drop. Much like dgeesaman mentioned.

Also I'd size the targets according to the precision of the centerfire at the distances I'd be using for the airgun.

It's not overly difficult to shoot 1/2 moa to 1 moa farther out with a good precision centerfire rifle if the wind is down.

You'd just have to experiment until you find the best compromise.

The main thing is the person training has the advantage of having the trigger time, dialing the scope, getting into the same positions one would use the centerfire for, and getting their Form perfected.
 
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steve123 said:
If I wanted to train for long range centerfire using a airgun I'd concentrate on how much the wind would blow the projectile rather than drop...
Click to expand...

If that were all that was needed, then shooting wadcutters at 25yds would do it.

But there is a lot more to it then reading wind.
 
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For me, shooting a powder burner at a critter and killing it at 1000 yds was about equivalent in challenge as killing the same type of critter at 400 yards with the air rifle. The added distance with less wind effect was the dominating factor with the powder burner whereas with the air gun it was more the wind variations that dominated the challenge.
 
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My experience has been that if you want to shoot airguns then do so. Same with powder burners. If I need to train for shooting a .308 at 1000 yards then that’s what I use. An airgun is a different critter and while you can do well practicing general shooting skills with either, once you get into specific applications your practice sessions should utilize the gun you plan to use. That’s how it works for me anyway.

Rick H.
 
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Scotchmo said:
If that were all that was needed, then shooting wadcutters at 25yds would do it.

But there is a lot more to it then reading wind.
Click to expand...

As we know learning what your rifle's projectile does in the wind is super important since the wind is constantly changing.
Drop - is something that is unchanging for the most part. Your dope is your dope once its figured out.

I've worn out four 6x47L barrels, I also won a long range steel series a couple times with this cartridge so I'm well familiar. Lets use that as an example compared to my Uragan 25 cal with 34gr pellets.

Precision wise;
100Y = 1/2 moa for the 6x47L in 5 mph winds. 100Y is where I zero the rifle.
100Y = 2 moa for the airgun in 5 mph winds. 30Y is where I zero this rifle.

Generally speaking here, and these are approximates, but I've shot less than the figures I'm giving for the 6x47 before but not always.

I'll keep using 5 mph from now on for both types of guns and I'm using the dope SHOOTER app gives me.

300Y/6x47 using 105 grainers at 3000 fps. Drift would be .7 moa. Probably keep most shots into .7 moa".
18Y would be the same .7 moa drift for the AG. I think I could keep most shots into .7 moa but I've never tried??

500Y/6x47 drift is 1.3 moa. I could probably do .8 moa groups.
33Y/AG drift is 1.3 moa. I think I could keep most shots into 1 moa or basically one third of an inch.

700Y/6x47 drift is 2.2 moa. Probably do .9 moa groups.
48Y/AG drift is 2.2 moa. Maybe keeping them into 1.2 moa.

900Y/6x47 drift is 3.1 moa. Probably do around 1.1 moa groups.
74Y/AG drift is 3.1 moa. Maybe keeping them into 1.8 moa??

Drop's for each rifle are;
6x47
300Y/3 moa
500Y/7.8 moa
700Y/13.7 moa
900Y/21 moa

AG
18Y/3.1 moa
33Y/0
48Y/.9 moa
74Y/5.4 moa

Even adjusting the zero distance and the scope height for the AG getting the drops for each correlating well is......
We're talking about 3 times the velocity and 10 times the BC in favor of the centerfire. But its not too hard to get the wind drift correlating at a range of distances.
 
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steve123 said:
…Drop - is something that is unchanging for the most part. Your dope is your dope once its figured out...
Click to expand...
I do a lot of my testing at sea level, but so far, all of my long range airgun competitions have been at around 2000ft elevation. That alone changes the barometric pressure that I need to account for. I calculate the drops based on conditions when shooting because there can be significant differences. Drop varies with conditions.
 
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