• *Effective 3/27/2024 - The discussion of the creation, fabrication, or modification of airgun moderators is prohibited. The discussion of any "adapters" used to convert an airgun moderator to a firearm silencer will result in immediate termination of the account.*

Oversized suppressor...? Would this work?

Before I spend a lot of time on STL files and design and so on, I have this idea of making an oversized suppressor. I know that practical use scenarios prevent suppressors from being a certain size, but if I didn't care about interfering with the scope or looking silly, and would just raise the scope with adaptors, is there a reason a very large suppressor wouldn't work much better than the commercial options out there? I'm looking to make one or two backyard shots a month (a particular nuisance varmint that visits sometimes) but eliminating as much of the sound as possible, (no matter the cost or inconvenience) is super important. My airgun and pellet combo leave me tons of power to spare. Is there any reason a much larger suppressor wouldn't make a much bigger difference? Part of me feels like if this were the case, there's be at least a few designs out there kicking around, but in the past year of looking each time it came to mind, I never noticed any.

Any input on the idea from experienced users would be very much appreciated.
 
There are for me 3 prime examples of less being more .. in the case of a shroud.. There is nothing more quiet even at full power than a taipan veteran.. the secret deep cone baffle.. I saw ones somebody that made a post on a copy of the baffle design of a very quiet 200fpe 308 condor .. mouse fart quiet.. 4 different depth chambers 4 - 1 1/2 inch deep cone baffles 2" thick.. even when years ago Robert lane made moderators the first thing you see is a very pronounced cone baffle followed by some soud deflecting material... I think 3d printing will offer the next big step in moderators for pcp . A 3d printed design focused on stripping the air of the projectile and moving the air backwards..could be ideal..
I made one, for a hatsan. 30 .. 2" x 10" long and it made the hatsan mouse fart quiet. I made one same size for a high power .22 condor , same result..a 2:×10" can is not pretty but it works...then donny came along..and there were no way for me to spend the time doing one .. just ordered n wait..🙃 I buying some metal working machines , so with the proper tools I might try it again this time would be more enjoyable..
 
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You can easily compute the amount of air your rifle uses for each shot. That volume is important when building a moderator.

Let's have an example. Suppose my HW110 gives me 30 shots on a 140cc tank from 200 BAR to 100 BAR. That's all you need to compute the volume of air your rifle uses for each shot. The math looks like this: ((200-100)*140)/30=466.7 cc/Shot. We are calculating the start volume in bar minus the end volume in bar times the tank volume divided by the number of shots. That gives us the volume per shot at ONE BAR.

For that rifle it works out to about 457cc. There are different ways that a moderator works. Some simply allow enough expansion to drop the pressure before venting to the atmosphere. Some use turbulence created by baffle designs to slow down the release of pressure over time. Some use both approaches. If you reduce the volume of a moderator by half you double the working pressure of that moderator. If you double the volume of a moderator you reduce the working pressure by half.

The HW110 primarily uses the first approach (expansion chamber) with a couple of very simple restrictors thrown in to add turbulence. IN THEORY if you reduce the pressure of the shot to ONE BAR before it enters the atmosphere you could actually achieve "mouse fart" quiet. The HW110 moderator is EXCEPTIONALLY good. It will reduce the shot volume to something like about 68 dB at 15 feet from the muzzle. That is just superb. Most moderators are struggling to reduce shot volume below about 78 dB.

Remember the shot volume I calculated above? The moderator on that HW110 is 170mm x 30mm external (6.7" x 1.2") and 162.5mm x 27.5mm internal. So the volume of that moderator is 96.5cc. That means the ratio of volume of the moderator to the shot volume is 1:4.8. The volume of the moderator is only about 1/5 of the volume of the air used for each shot. A lower moderator volume is going to mean MORE noise. Cut that ratio in half and you are going to APPROXIMATELY double the noise power +3dB. Double that ratio and you are going to APPROXIMATELY halve that noise power -3dB. That theory APPROXIMATELY holds for IDENTICAL designs. As you shorten a moderator the distance from the muzzle to the exit port reduces and that adds in additional problems (usually solved by increasing turbulance with more baffles).

Now lets go back to that assertion that an exit pressure of 1 BAR means "mouse fart" quiet. If the moderator to air volume ratio is 1:5 the working pressure inside the moderator never exceeds 5 BAR. It is a "5 BAR" moderator. So a "5 BAR" moderator is capable of 68 dB performance. A "2.5 BAR" moderator should be capable of 65dB performance and a "10 BAR" moderator should be capable of 71dB performance.

What are the dimensions of those two moderators. Well the easy (and best) way to change the moderators volume is by changing length. So the "2.5 BAR" moderator would be about 13.4" x 1.2" and the "10 BAR" moderator would be about 3.35" x 1.2".

The question was essentially what is the biggest moderator I can make without wasting space. The answer IN THEORY is something like a moderator which gives you a 1:1 ratio of moderator volume to shot volume. Well we can calculate that. Lets suppose you have a Condor shooting a 9mm slug for 200 fpe. It does that on a 200 BAR charge and uses 30 BAR on a 500cc cylinder (just guessing here). The moderator that you are wanting to build will have to contain 30x500cc = 15,000cc of shot volume. Lets use a 75mm (~3") tube for our moderator. You calculate the cross section of your tube as PI * (37.5*37.5) and get 14.06 sq. cm, By dividing that into 15,000 we get a length of 1067mm or basically one meter long. That's gonna be real quiet. Now that is a 1:1 BAR moderator. If we wanted something pretty quiet we could go with a 1:4 BAR moderator. That one is going to be 250 cm x 7.5 cm (9.8" x 3").

OR You can do what snipers are trained to do. Shoot through a loop hole from the back of a room. In other words USE THE BUILDING as the silencer.
 
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There was a post a while back. If I remember correctly the guy is outside of the USA, but he was using a 2 liter soda bottle with no internals. Think his rig was set up for 70+ FPE. He said it is extremely effective.
2000 cc volume. That should do a pretty good job. Wrap some felt or neoprene around the bottle and it would work even better.
 
I found Donnyfl Shogun to be much louder than the Koi on a 50 fpe. .25 rifle. My opinion is the lack of constriction allowed the blast to flow freely.
Yep, moderators are not often made to simply absorb all the sound because of size limitations. Short fat moderators have the problem of getting up to a working pressure quickly enough to accomplish their job before the muzzle blast escapes the tube. There is a delicate balance there. IOW "One size never fits all rifles."
 
Yep, moderators are not often made to simply absorb all the sound because of size limitations. Short fat moderators have the problem of getting up to a working pressure quickly enough to accomplish their job before the muzzle blast escapes the tube. There is a delicate balance there. IOW "One size never fits all rifles."
First of ALL. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MOUSE FART QUIET.

Now that is out of the way. You can easily compute the amount of air your rifle uses for each shot. That volume is important when building a moderator.

Let's have an example. Suppose my HW110 gives me 30 shots on a 140cc tank from 200 BAR to 100 BAR. That's all you need to compute the volume of air your rifle uses for each shot. The math looks like this: ((200-100)*140)/30=466.7 cc/Shot. We are calculating the start volume in bar minus the end volume in bar times the tank volume divided by the number of shots. That gives us the volume per shot at ONE BAR.

For that rifle it works out to about 457cc. There are different ways that a moderator works. Some simply allow enough expansion to drop the pressure before venting to the atmosphere. Some use turbulence created by baffle designs to slow down the release of pressure over time. Some use both approaches. If you reduce the volume of a moderator by half you double the working pressure of that moderator. If you double the volume of a moderator you reduce the working pressure by half.

The HW110 primarily uses the first approach (expansion chamber) with a couple of very simple restrictors thrown in to add turbulence. IN THEORY if you reduce the pressure of the shot to ONE BAR before it enters the atmosphere you could actually achieve "mouse fart" quiet. The HW110 moderator is EXCEPTIONALLY good. It will reduce the shot volume to something like about 68 dB at 15 feet from the muzzle. That is just superb. Most moderators are struggling to reduce shot volume below about 78 dB.

Remember the shot volume I calculated above? The moderator on that HW110 is 170mm x 30mm external (6.7" x 1.2") and 162.5mm x 27.5mm internal. So the volume of that moderator is 96.5cc. That means the ratio of volume of the moderator to the shot volume is 1:4.8. The volume of the moderator is only about 1/5 of the volume of the air used for each shot. A lower moderator volume is going to mean MORE noise. Cut that ratio in half and you are going to APPROXIMATELY double the noise power +3dB. Double that ratio and you are going to APPROXIMATELY halve that noise power -3dB. That theory APPROXIMATELY holds for IDENTICAL designs. As you shorten a moderator the distance from the muzzle to the exit port reduces and that adds in additional problems (usually solved by increasing turbulance with more baffles).

Now lets go back to that assertion that an exit pressure of 1 BAR means "mouse fart" quiet. If the moderator to air volume ratio is 1:5 the working pressure inside the moderator never exceeds 5 BAR. It is a "5 BAR" moderator. So a "5 BAR" moderator is capable of 68 dB performance. A "2.5 BAR" moderator should be capable of 65dB performance and a "10 BAR" moderator should be capable of 71dB performance.

What are the dimensions of those two moderators. Well the easy (and best) way to change the moderators volume is by changing length. So the "2.5 BAR" moderator would be about 13.4" x 1.2" and the "10 BAR" moderator would be about 3.35" x 1.2".

The question was essentially what is the biggest moderator I can make without wasting space. The answer IN THEORY is something like a moderator which gives you a 1:1 ratio of moderator volume to shot volume. Well we can calculate that. Lets suppose you have a Condor shooting a 9mm slug for 200 fpe. It does that on a 200 BAR charge and uses 30 BAR on a 500cc cylinder (just guessing here). The moderator that you are wanting to build will have to contain 30x500cc = 15,000cc of shot volume. Lets use a 75mm (~3") tube for our moderator. You calculate the cross section of your tube as PI * (37.5*37.5) and get 14.06 sq. cm, By dividing that into 15,000 we get a length of 1067mm or basically one meter long. That's gonna be real quiet.

OR You can do what snipers are trained to do. Shoot through a loop hole from the back of a room. In other words USE THE BUILDING as the silencer.
As a former member of the silent profession and an avid airgun player with 30 yrs in the game. With all due respect I have a couple Theoben rapids with AZ full barrel shroud and the only sound when she fires is the click of the hammer spring and the pellet exiting the target..that's pretty mous fart quiet..
Being ur from the Va and so am I. Would luv to shoot air weapons some time.. lol
 
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There was a post a while back. If I remember correctly the guy is outside of the USA, but he was using a 2 liter soda bottle with no internals. Think his rig was set up for 70+ FPE. He said it is extremely effective.
yes i have seen a 2 or 3 L empty pop bottle used , just put the end of the barrel inside and shoot no exit hole needed . somehow a PITA i think
 
yes i have seen a 2 or 3 L empty pop bottle used , just put the end of the barrel inside and shoot no exit hole needed . somehow a PITA i think
Pretty sure he had a machined adapter for whatever thread size for the barrel and the exterior threads of the soda bottle.
I made one out of a lawnmower in-line muffler for a short barreled .25 condor pushing 43gr Eun Jin’s at 970 fps. All you would hear is hammer fall and the impact of the pellet into 1100+ pages of a dry phone book. Sadly I tried to replicate it but I think they changed the interior of the muffler.
 
As a former member of the silent profession and an avid airgun player with 30 yrs in the game. With all due respect I have a couple Theoben rapids with AZ full barrel shroud and the only sound when she fires is the click of the hammer spring and the pellet exiting the target..that's pretty mous fart quiet..
Being ur from the Va and so am I. Would luv to shoot air weapons some time.. lol
I'd be interested to run one of those over a microphone at about 15 feet. I am sure they are very quiet. They are also a very fine weapon. I still maintain that a mouse fart is not audible. Respect back at you. :) ;)
 
Pretty sure he had a machined adapter for whatever thread size for the barrel and the exterior threads of the soda bottle.
I made one out of a lawnmower in-line muffler for a short barreled .25 condor pushing 43gr Eun Jin’s at 970 fps. All you would hear is hammer fall and the impact of the pellet into 1100+ pages of a dry phone book. Sadly I tried to replicate it but I think they changed the interior of the muffler.
Something like this? 1/2 UNF to Soda Bottle Cap

bad.png
 
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I'd be interested to run one of those over a microphone at about 15 feet. I am sure they are very quiet. They are also a very fine weapon. I still maintain that a mouse fart is not audible. Respect back at you. :) ;)
I'd be interested to run one of those over a microphone at about 15 feet. I am sure they are very quiet. They are also a very fine weapon. I still maintain that a mouse fart is not audible. Respect back at you. :) ;)
I stand corrected . If this rat farted you would hear it.. lol

0948C94B-13EA-4E6B-9CC1-DB83AB82CBD7.jpeg
 
First of ALL. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MOUSE FART QUIET.

Now that is out of the way. You can easily compute the amount of air your rifle uses for each shot. That volume is important when building a moderator.

Let's have an example. Suppose my HW110 gives me 30 shots on a 140cc tank from 200 BAR to 100 BAR. That's all you need to compute the volume of air your rifle uses for each shot. The math looks like this: ((200-100)*140)/30=466.7 cc/Shot. We are calculating the start volume in bar minus the end volume in bar times the tank volume divided by the number of shots. That gives us the volume per shot at ONE BAR.

For that rifle it works out to about 457cc. There are different ways that a moderator works. Some simply allow enough expansion to drop the pressure before venting to the atmosphere. Some use turbulence created by baffle designs to slow down the release of pressure over time. Some use both approaches. If you reduce the volume of a moderator by half you double the working pressure of that moderator. If you double the volume of a moderator you reduce the working pressure by half.

The HW110 primarily uses the first approach (expansion chamber) with a couple of very simple restrictors thrown in to add turbulence. IN THEORY if you reduce the pressure of the shot to ONE BAR before it enters the atmosphere you could actually achieve "mouse fart" quiet. The HW110 moderator is EXCEPTIONALLY good. It will reduce the shot volume to something like about 68 dB at 15 feet from the muzzle. That is just superb. Most moderators are struggling to reduce shot volume below about 78 dB.

Remember the shot volume I calculated above? The moderator on that HW110 is 170mm x 30mm external (6.7" x 1.2") and 162.5mm x 27.5mm internal. So the volume of that moderator is 96.5cc. That means the ratio of volume of the moderator to the shot volume is 1:4.8. The volume of the moderator is only about 1/5 of the volume of the air used for each shot. A lower moderator volume is going to mean MORE noise. Cut that ratio in half and you are going to APPROXIMATELY double the noise power +3dB. Double that ratio and you are going to APPROXIMATELY halve that noise power -3dB. That theory APPROXIMATELY holds for IDENTICAL designs. As you shorten a moderator the distance from the muzzle to the exit port reduces and that adds in additional problems (usually solved by increasing turbulance with more baffles).

Now lets go back to that assertion that an exit pressure of 1 BAR means "mouse fart" quiet. If the moderator to air volume ratio is 1:5 the working pressure inside the moderator never exceeds 5 BAR. It is a "5 BAR" moderator. So a "5 BAR" moderator is capable of 68 dB performance. A "2.5 BAR" moderator should be capable of 65dB performance and a "10 BAR" moderator should be capable of 71dB performance.

What are the dimensions of those two moderators. Well the easy (and best) way to change the moderators volume is by changing length. So the "2.5 BAR" moderator would be about 13.4" x 1.2" and the "10 BAR" moderator would be about 3.35" x 1.2".

The question was essentially what is the biggest moderator I can make without wasting space. The answer IN THEORY is something like a moderator which gives you a 1:1 ratio of moderator volume to shot volume. Well we can calculate that. Lets suppose you have a Condor shooting a 9mm slug for 200 fpe. It does that on a 200 BAR charge and uses 30 BAR on a 500cc cylinder (just guessing here). The moderator that you are wanting to build will have to contain 30x500cc = 15,000cc of shot volume. Lets use a 75mm (~3") tube for our moderator. You calculate the cross section of your tube as PI * (37.5*37.5) and get 14.06 sq. cm, By dividing that into 15,000 we get a length of 1067mm or basically one meter long. That's gonna be real quiet.

OR You can do what snipers are trained to do. Shoot through a loop hole from the back of a room. In other words USE THE BUILDING

First of ALL. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MOUSE FART QUIET.

Now that is out of the way. You can easily compute the amount of air your rifle uses for each shot. That volume is important when building a moderator.

Let's have an example. Suppose my HW110 gives me 30 shots on a 140cc tank from 200 BAR to 100 BAR. That's all you need to compute the volume of air your rifle uses for each shot. The math looks like this: ((200-100)*140)/30=466.7 cc/Shot. We are calculating the start volume in bar minus the end volume in bar times the tank volume divided by the number of shots. That gives us the volume per shot at ONE BAR.

For that rifle it works out to about 457cc. There are different ways that a moderator works. Some simply allow enough expansion to drop the pressure before venting to the atmosphere. Some use turbulence created by baffle designs to slow down the release of pressure over time. Some use both approaches. If you reduce the volume of a moderator by half you double the working pressure of that moderator. If you double the volume of a moderator you reduce the working pressure by half.

The HW110 primarily uses the first approach (expansion chamber) with a couple of very simple restrictors thrown in to add turbulence. IN THEORY if you reduce the pressure of the shot to ONE BAR before it enters the atmosphere you could actually achieve "mouse fart" quiet. The HW110 moderator is EXCEPTIONALLY good. It will reduce the shot volume to something like about 68 dB at 15 feet from the muzzle. That is just superb. Most moderators are struggling to reduce shot volume below about 78 dB.

Remember the shot volume I calculated above? The moderator on that HW110 is 170mm x 30mm external (6.7" x 1.2") and 162.5mm x 27.5mm internal. So the volume of that moderator is 96.5cc. That means the ratio of volume of the moderator to the shot volume is 1:4.8. The volume of the moderator is only about 1/5 of the volume of the air used for each shot. A lower moderator volume is going to mean MORE noise. Cut that ratio in half and you are going to APPROXIMATELY double the noise power +3dB. Double that ratio and you are going to APPROXIMATELY halve that noise power -3dB. That theory APPROXIMATELY holds for IDENTICAL designs. As you shorten a moderator the distance from the muzzle to the exit port reduces and that adds in additional problems (usually solved by increasing turbulance with more baffles).

Now lets go back to that assertion that an exit pressure of 1 BAR means "mouse fart" quiet. If the moderator to air volume ratio is 1:5 the working pressure inside the moderator never exceeds 5 BAR. It is a "5 BAR" moderator. So a "5 BAR" moderator is capable of 68 dB performance. A "2.5 BAR" moderator should be capable of 65dB performance and a "10 BAR" moderator should be capable of 71dB performance.

What are the dimensions of those two moderators. Well the easy (and best) way to change the moderators volume is by changing length. So the "2.5 BAR" moderator would be about 13.4" x 1.2" and the "10 BAR" moderator would be about 3.35" x 1.2".

The question was essentially what is the biggest moderator I can make without wasting space. The answer IN THEORY is something like a moderator which gives you a 1:1 ratio of moderator volume to shot volume. Well we can calculate that. Lets suppose you have a Condor shooting a 9mm slug for 200 fpe. It does that on a 200 BAR charge and uses 30 BAR on a 500cc cylinder (just guessing here). The moderator that you are wanting to build will have to contain 30x500cc = 15,000cc of shot volume. Lets use a 75mm (~3") tube for our moderator. You calculate the cross section of your tube as PI * (37.5*37.5) and get 14.06 sq. cm, By dividing that into 15,000 we get a length of 1067mm or basically one meter long. That's gonna be real quiet.

OR You can do what snipers are trained to do. Shoot through a loop hole from the back of a room. In other words USE THE BUILDING as the silencer.
Now ..YOU ARE WRONG THERE .. my condor at 90fp ..the one thing you could hear is the hammer strike.. that is mouse fart quiet in my book. Or to anyone else shooting 90fp in .22 .. mine was my version of the one used in a Doug noble. 308 condor.. that hear this at 200fp is mouse fart quiet..not esthetic doable for all guns..but not impossible..

Screenshot_20230210-231355_YouTube.jpg
 
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Now ..YOU ARE WRONG THERE .. my condor at 90fp ..the one thing you could hear is the hammer strike.. that is mouse fart quiet in my book. Or to anyone else shooting 90fp in .22 .. mine was my version of the one used in a Doug noble. 308 condor.. that hear this at 200fp is mouse fart quiet..not esthetic doable for all guns..but not impossible..
I'm just going to guess but it is an experienced guess. That sounds like about 60 dB at fifteen feet directly in front of the muzzle. It is very guiet.