Opinions Please: At a new permission….What caliber would you start off with?

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Blackpaw

Blackpaw

Member
Apr 23, 2020
3,202
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Idaho, United States
Okay I know this is a loaded question because of dozens of factors, but I wanted opinions on the blew.

The setting is when I got permission to pest at a dairy near my hometown in Idaho, I brought my Taipan Vet Compact in 25 and when I had it, the Leshiy 2 in 177. After doing the asking if I can hunt here, and getting a yes, I was showing the dairy owner my guns. When I said the Taipan was a 25 cal his eyes got big, and I immediately got the don’t use that here look. Well, I didn’t start off using it, but once they got comfortable with me I did, but CAREFULLY, and tuned down a little.

So this morning a random thought came in my head while exercising. Say you show up a new permission, they barely know you and you them. Would you start out with the BIGGER calibers or start smaller (177 & 22) then work your way up once you got familiar with the location?

Personally, I would go as small as I could then once I get to know the landowner and associated people, and the permission, I would work my way up, if I could and it allowed.

Yes, it could be a field of ground squirrels, vs Eurasian doves and starlings, but again I would start small and work way up.
 
I would not volunteer nthe caliber info. Stay with appropriate FPE. Carry over and shoot through are my biggest concerns.
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Agree. They don't need to know, not that you need to keep it a secret from them, but it shouldn't matter to them. 

The reason it shouldn't matter to them is because the caliber/fpe decision is on you, not them. You are responsible if you cause damage at someone else's property. Choose an energy level that will prevent you from having to go to the landowner with hat in hand to admit to causing damage and that'll you will be paying to fix it. 

Now, if they express interest in knowing what you're shooting, you should not withhold that info. And by choosing something safe and appropriate for the situation, you should be able to disclose that info without any concerns for how they'll receive it. (cuz if you're being responsible and chose correctly, the answer to their question's about power level and caliber will set them at ease). 
 
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To much liability to be using big calibers, especially when shooting up in the air over silos and in and around buildings. Using slugs opens up a whole different can of worms to liability as well. If I need to use more than a .22 for birds and small pest I may need to re-evaluate my hunting techniques and shot placement. I look at it this way, these owners trust me to pest near and around animals, workers and expensive equipment....no room to screw up plain and simple. 
 
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I would not volunteer nthe caliber info. Stay with appropriate FPE. Carry over and shoot through are my biggest concerns.
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Agree. They don't need to know, not that you need to keep it a secret from them, but it shouldn't matter to them. 

The reason it shouldn't matter to them is because the caliber/fpe decision is on you, not them. You are responsible if you cause damage at someone else's property. Choose an energy level that will prevent you from having to go to the landowner with hat in hand to admit to causing damage and that'll you will be paying to fix it. 

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Damaged properties can be fixed, someone's eye can't be fixed. It's a farm which usually is full of workers, animals/live stocks.......not a shooting range. But hey, it's your permission and it's a free country.......until someone screws it up for everyone. 
 
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Wow, I can't see where Qball is coming from with that pithy retort. Caliber is independent of energy, as I made clear on my post. A .30 pellet at 500 fps.is much less risky than a .177 slug at 1200 fps.

Caliber alone is not a guarantee of safe shooting, and to project all the world's negative outcomes on somebody who does not subscribe to your narrow and ignorant views is a bit harsh, Imho.

Use the right tool for the job. Follow the sacred rules and shoot straight.
 
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I lost several permissions due to a cool guy who decided using a large caliber around livestock to kill birds was a good idea. A ricochet hit a bull calf and then he walked away from the situation not telling the farmer. The farmer found the bull calf suffering with a bullet stuck in it, needless to say bad news travels fast and nobody was allowed to pest on these properties anymore and I certainly don't blame them. To this day the whole situation leaves me sour, accident or not it happens. Be really careful and think before you shoot, think about the worst case scenario.
 
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I lost several permissions due to a cool guy who decided using a large caliber around livestock to kill birds was a good idea. A ricochet killed a bull calf and then he walked away from the situation not telling the farmer. The farmer found the bull calf suffering with a bullet stuck in it, needless to say bad news travels fast and nobody was allowed to pest on these properties anymore and I certainly don't blame them. To this day the whole situation leaves me sour, accident or not it happens. Be really careful and think before you shoot, think about the worst case scenario.
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Although I think *most* pesters value their permissions enough to be EXTRA careful not to screw it up, there are MANY people with no *good sense* (common sense is not common) and those people are the ones who usually get so caught up in what they are doing that they forget the simplest safety while pursuing their target(s).

Even those of us who try VERY hard to be safe make mistakes. So, as has already been posted, I suggest using the lowest caliber/fpe necessary to do the job that will lower the probability of unintended damage, be that property, live stock, pets, humans, etc.

If you *think* a higher caliber/fpe is needed, think long and hard about that. Accuracy/precision is probably the answer that is most safe AND effective, not higher caliber/fpe in most cases.

I see lots of posts here and on GTA where the caliber is WAY more than needed and the shot placement was not very good. Yes, the result was DRT, but the accuracy/precision was absent. You simply can't do this in many *permission* based pesting situations. That is, if you are going to truly be safe.

JMHO
 
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I would not volunteer nthe caliber info. Stay with appropriate FPE. Carry over and shoot through are my biggest concerns.
Click to expand...

Agree. They don't need to know, not that you need to keep it a secret from them, but it shouldn't matter to them. 

The reason it shouldn't matter to them is because the caliber/fpe decision is on you, not them. You are responsible if you cause damage at someone else's property. Choose an energy level that will prevent you from having to go to the landowner with hat in hand to admit to causing damage and that'll you will be paying to fix it. 

Click to expand...



Damaged properties can be fixed, someone's eye can't be fixed. It's a farm which usually is full of workers, animals/live stocks.......not a shooting range. But hey, it's your permission and it's a free country.......until someone screws it up for everyone.
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Perhaps I wasn't clear in the sharing of my opinion? 

I'll try again. (with a focus on keeping the sentences short)

Choose a safe energy level. It wont go well for you if you don't.
 
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I think all we can really do is try to set the best examples we can for others. People take these topics to heart, I'm guilty of being a bit judgmental sometimes but I don't mean to. Bottom line is just be careful and aware of what could possibly go wrong... sometimes not taking the shot is the best thing to do. Some people get excited when they see so many targets, I think buck fever comes into play. Lol 
 
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Funny thing is that it won't be long before ANOTHER discussion comes up about being "ethical" in our pesting. 

And in that discussion some "MO POWER ugh ugh ugh" aficionado will say something like, "anything less than a .30 cal is unethical", and that they only take eyeball shots. "We OWE it to our quarry to hit them with an fpe triple their body weight in pounds."

And then some voice of reason will say, "well, I have lots of places to shoot pdogs, but they're all in irrigated fields near houses and livestock so I shoot them with small caliber/low fpe airguns, at least in those caution-required areas."

And you can guess what the "sportsman" among us will say to the guy removing pdogs with a safe fpe for the situation. 

Problem is that there are many who have opinions on these matters, but don't actually shoot at "permissions" or anywhere other than their backyard or a range.
 
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Me? At least .30 or better yet a .35, farm vermin, rats, pigeons, starlings, sparrows, etc. Shrug off shots from anything less😀 Starting with a smaller caliber seems the prudent thing to do. I had one owner who was reluctant because of past experiences, who changed his tune once I show him the size of the .177 and .22 pellets I would be using. For my purposes .177 and .22 handle all my pesting in and around farm buildings.
 
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So I see a lot of how you all view this is using common sense etc. One of the reasons I want my next gun to be 22 cal is to keep it on the lower end of power with still some ballistics performance. Though a cranked down 25 cal pellet is less likely to piercing sheet metal than same FPE 177 or 22, I did a test once on this. The 177 pellet did more damage to the cookie sheet than the 25 cal at 16 FPE due to surface area dispersion.

And I agree with @crosman999 You really need to start reevaluating your tactics if the only way you think it can get done is with more power.

I know this is an never ending discussion, but I was curious of your points of view.
 
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I would not volunteer nthe caliber info. Stay with appropriate FPE. Carry over and shoot through are my biggest concerns.
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I don't do permissions but I definitely agree on leaving the caliber info out. Most people have the notion that larger calibers are more powerful, and that can be correct. But when the calibers start to mimic firearm calibers by name, people will make an incorrect association which could quickly get your permission revoked.

That's because they want two things out of your service:

  1. Dead pest.
  2. No damage to livestock, people or property.
    [/LIST=1]

    And this is so funny, because when you say you use a .177cal no one ever associates that with a .17 HMR, but mention a .22 or .25 and all they can think of is what those calibers equate to in firearms. Unless you are talking to someone very knowledgeable, because they were researching airguns before, they may have a hard time understanding how you can turn a gun down.

    1. [/LIST=1]
 
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I just found out that you can not shoot pests here legally with anything less than a .22.

To me it say a little about how crazy things are here, cuz i cant see why you could not make ethical kills on say rats with a .177 and even a lower powered one of those.

If i was to get into something like this ( which i sadly can not as what is simple things are far from simple in Denmark ) then with the technology i would share video recordings of every shot made on the permission.
 
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Wow, I can't see where Qball is coming from with that pithy retort. Caliber is independent of energy, as I made clear on my post. A .30 pellet at 500 fps.is much less risky than a .177 slug at 1200 fps.

Caliber alone is not a guarantee of safe shooting, and to project all the world's negative outcomes on somebody who does not subscribe to your narrow and ignorant views is a bit harsh, Imho.

Use the right tool for the job. Follow the sacred rules and shoot straight.
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Sorry if I came off bitchy or unclear but I want to stress on start with as low power AND caliber as possible. Accidents happens or no one will have insurance. A 44 grain pellet will have a ton more retained energy at 500fps compared to a 7.4 grain pellet at 500fps, even more so than their weight difference would suggest. Only way to be as safe as you can with as low power and caliber as you can get away with. You don’t need crazy power to kill birds, rats and stuff. I agree with the need to shoot pests ethically but power isn’t the only answer, like @crosman999 said it’s far more prudent to change tactics. 


Personally I shoot house sparrows out to 35 yards with 3.2 FPE or 5.6 grain@500 FPS and they always DRT with head or center mass shots. 7-8 FPE for fox squirrels and I still get pass through on vital shots with 177 hades depending on the angel, mind you these suburban fox squirrels can get well over 2lbs. I’ve even killed a fat rat with 2 FPE out of my 1701 pistol at 10 yards. 


completely agree with you on the right tool for the job but the perception of the right tool differ and IMHO a lot of people’s perception of adequate power from reading different threads is dangerously high.
 
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I like shooting with .30 cal most of the time, Its awesome for plinking and hunting, Also when I am shooting longer distances the heavy pellet/slug hold better groups if there is a lot of wind. But if you are just a beginner sometimes a lower caliber might be the better recommendation, Just in case if you want to try and decide what to you want more plinking or hunting the .25 caliber is almost a perfect in-between from the plinking master of a .22 and the hunting master of the .30. 
 
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