Open Letter to Leupold - Please Make this Scope

Let's start a petition - I am serious...

Let's get a thread going - Letter to Leupold- 
Decide on our "optimum specs" and see if we can get some attention?

I am new to airguns and seen many people say Leupold is great but 2 or three things stop people from buying them.

From my research - we want a rifle scope that:

1) FFP
2) etched mil dot reticle
3) focus from 10 yard to infinity
4) 3x or 4x to at least 14X magnification
5) side focus
6) less than 16oz weight
7) under $500

Please add to or revise this?
 
RE-POST:

As some of you guys may know, I am a fan of Leupold. I have a pretty big collection of airguns (yeah, I’m addicted), with most having Hawke & UTG scopes on them…. but the one scope that blows them all away is my Leupold, VX2 3-9X33, EFR with CDS (custom dial system) and Wind-Plex reticle, model 120617. This little guy will focus down to 10yards, it’s super light weight with incredible glass. The others don’t even come close.

I live 10 minutes away from the Leupold facility in Beaverton, OR … and more than willing to hand deliver a letter that outlines the wants & needs from our Air Gun Community. I have a good connection over there and, I am pretty certain that they would like to hear from us!

If interested, send me a PM.

–Carl ‘Oregun’
 
I'm with Nueces. Front focus . Maybe a scope based on the VX2 4-12 . That seems like an easy fix . Just shorten the focus distance, and offer a recticle with reference points . And maybe a recticle option 3-9 EFR .
Me personally I'd LOVE a 8 and a 12 power fixed with EFR focus range . All these can be had from the custom shop ....So why not offer them as a factory AirGun Line ?
All of the scopes I've mentioned would be super easy to make . The base scope is already there . Just needs AirGun friendly options . I love my fixed power custom shop scope . But it won't AO past 70 yards now because the AO was shortened. Seems silly that this can't be addressed.
PS GREAT IDEA FOR A THREAD ! N
 
"Oregun"RE-POST:

As some of you guys may know, I am a fan of Leupold. I have a pretty big collection of airguns (yeah, I’m addicted), with most having Hawke & UTG scopes on them…. but the one scope that blows them all away is my Leupold, VX2 3-9X33, EFR with CDS (custom dial system) and Wind-Plex reticle, model 120617. This little guy will focus down to 10yards, it’s super light weight with incredible glass. The others don’t even come close.

I live 10 minutes away from the Leupold facility in Beaverton, OR … and more than willing to hand deliver a letter that outlines the wants & needs from our Air Gun Community. I have a good connection over there and, I am pretty certain that they would like to hear from us!

If interested, send me a PM.

–Carl ‘Oregun’
I'll give this topic another day or two ... and see if I can get an appointment to meet with a rep during the week. I'll share this forum and topic with them. Keep it going... Good stuff, guys!!! 
 
I agree with Joe, and think the VX2 3-9x33 EFR and VX2 4-12x40 would make excellent base platforms for air rifle scopes. Leupold would only need to add a mil dot reticle (or maybe some other marked reticle), and add EFR to the 4-10 and offer them for around the same price as the originals. It would also be great if they added a couple of competition scope offerings for FT and HFT. For HFT, the 4-12 would again be a great place to start, and add side focus, EFR, and a marked reticle (you aren't allowed to use the turrets in HFT). For FT, a higher power scope would be needed with side focus, and also EFR. I would expect these competition scopes to cost more as they have more features.
 
This is directly from Opticstalk forum . I copied what was said by SWFA owner Chris Farris. Pretty widely accepted as an optics authority.
Here's the pros and cons of the 3 ways to adjust parallax in a riflescope.



1. Front

2. Side

3. Rear





1. Front

This method moves the objective lens in and out hence the term "adjustable objective". Its the first way manufacturers figured out how to adjust parallax and it is probably still the best way to do it. The scope maker can display more yardage markings because of the increased circumference of the adjustment and they can use slow or fast pitched threads.





2. Side

This method is a side mounted third knob on the center saddle section of a scope. Easily viewed and adjusted (for right hand shooters).

This method uses very fast threads to achieve major adjustments in a short movement because of the limited circumference, making it difficult to fine tune. This method also adds to the cost of the scope because it is very expensive to manufacturer. Susceptible to damage because it is the farthest protruding object on the left side of the rifle.





3. Rear

Located directly in front of the eye piece where you would normally change the power on a variable scope. Not widely used because it can only be implemented on a fixed power scope. Easy to access and read for right or left hand shooters. Quite a bit less expensive to make when compared to front or side.
,.. And for me personally. When the focus is up front I don't bump it and accidentally move it .
 
"Oregun"
"Oregun"RE-POST:

As some of you guys may know, I am a fan of Leupold. I have a pretty big collection of airguns (yeah, I’m addicted), with most having Hawke & UTG scopes on them…. but the one scope that blows them all away is my Leupold, VX2 3-9X33, EFR with CDS (custom dial system) and Wind-Plex reticle, model 120617. This little guy will focus down to 10yards, it’s super light weight with incredible glass. The others don’t even come close.

I live 10 minutes away from the Leupold facility in Beaverton, OR … and more than willing to hand deliver a letter that outlines the wants & needs from our Air Gun Community. I have a good connection over there and, I am pretty certain that they would like to hear from us!

If interested, send me a PM.

–Carl ‘Oregun’
I'll give this topic another day or two ... and see if I can get an appointment to meet with a rep during the week. I'll share this forum and topic with them. Keep it going... Good stuff, guys!!!
You will need to show them an example of the kind of reticles we need. No target blocking big black circles ( 'dots' ) and we don't need those thick black lines coming in half way from the side top and bottom.
 


https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-3i-riflescopes/vx-3i-4-5-14x40mm-30mm-side-focus/

If this had an option of minimum parallax and maybe different turrets....... Is this what you guys would want? It's $800 approx. If it was a FFP scope, I would imagine Leupold would add another $300 minimum to the bill. If they were going to produce a perfect airgun benchrest scope with more power it would probably be bout $2000??? Would the market demand such a scope at that price range? Just guessing..... I would think that in America it is about 2000-1 powder guns to precision airguns sold today.
 
"Dirte"

https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-3i-riflescopes/vx-3i-4-5-14x40mm-30mm-side-focus/

If this had an option of minimum parallax and maybe different turrets....... Is this what you guys would want? It's $800 approx. If it was a FFP scope, I would imagine Leupold would add another $300 minimum to the bill. If they were going to produce a perfect airgun benchrest scope with more power it would probably be bout $2000???
That's a VX 3, we are talking more at the VX 2 level
 
"Slayerious"How can you anyone like front focus? I want more debate on this.
I don't like front focus over side focus but the issue is less important to me than it is to others.

If all else is equal then I will choose side focus but otherwise, I'll go with the one with the better glass. 

If all else is equal apart from the price, I would probably go with the less expensive one if the difference was meaningful. 

I guess what I am saying is that I can live with front focus for the right scope. For example, my Clearidge Ultra RM or the Leupold efr 3-9x33, the main appeal is that they are lightweight scopes with decent glass. On some of my smaller hunting guns, that's more important than side vs front focus. 

The position of the AO wheel becomes much more important on higher power scopes. If you have something with a minimum power of 6 or 10x, you'll be using the focus wheel on every shot so it needs to be conveniently located. I was using my PA ffp scope at 14x a few days ago and I was adjusting the focus every time the squirel took a step.

I rarely ever touch the AO wheel on my Clearidge Ultra RM unless the shot is out past 60 or 70 yards because I can see clearly at 4x where no AO adjustment is needed. 
 
OK, so I'm looking at Leupolds web site. By the way, it's horrible. A poorly trained monkey could have done better when it comes to finding specifications. 

​The Mark 4 ER/T scopes have most of the features, just not at the price point.

FFP
​Parallax adjustment (Sice focus according to the description)
Heavy at 22 ounces (original list stated 16)
Parallax - Could not identify minimum adjustment range.
4.5 to 14X magnification

​Well, under $500 requirement is probably not going to happen. Optics Planet has the lowest price version of the Leupold Mark 4, 4.5 to 15x 50mm at $1279. Other versions climb to $2800 for the Leupold Mark4 ERT 6.5-20x50 34mm M5

​The cheapest Leupold is the 3-9 Deer Hunter at $200. The cheapest side focus (I think, never could really find the specs) is the Mark AR 3-9 at about $460. Gotta agree with Jmdesignz2, this is a $2000 scope from Leupold, not $500. 

​I think there are enough people out there with serious cash to spend on hunting and target equipment that Leupold can hold to that premium price for features and not flinch. 

​So, here's the real question. Leupold has their market niche. It's the high end rifle scope buyer. Maybe not Swarovski, but up there none the less. Why should they create and sell a low cost (for them, $500 is low cost) scope with feature sets they could sell for $2000? What's in it for Leupold? After all, they are a business and if I were putting together a business case for Leupold to create the scope requested, I'd need justifications and projected profits.

​What's the business case for Leupold to create this scope? I'm stretching on this one. Help me out!






​ 
 
Just went back and watched Matt Dubber's review of the Optisan EVX 4-16 x 44 F-1


Seems like the perfect scope. Matt goes out of his way to state he is giving an honest review and has rejected several other company's attempts to get him to review scopes this year. It appears this scope is not available yet in the US. This is a first focal plane scope and he pretty much raves about it. Gotta be at least a $900 scope.
 
As far as I can tell, nothing out there meets the OP's requirements, especially when you factor in the cost and weight specs. I think I've researched every scope on the market to find a scope that parallax's down to 10yds and has a 3x to 20x or so magnification; unless you're willing to spend March Optics kind of money, they don't exist.

For my new Daystate Regal XL 22, I first got the Sightron SIIISS3510X44LRMD/CM which has (IMO) excellent glass, reticle and tracking. But, I really wanted a bit more magnification so I next bought the S-TAC3-16X42MOA, the only other under 56mm 10 yards focus Sightron offers. Side by side, I like the SIII better, mostly because I prefer the mil dot, wider reticle - the finer S-TAC MOA reticle is tough to see for the dusk/evening rat shots.

Can be found for ~ $550(Or better with the great MIL/LEO discount)
SIIISS3510X44LRMD/CM
Reticle Type: Mil-Dot
Magnification: 3.5-10X
Focus Type: Side Focus
Parallax Range: 10yds to Infinity
Weight (oz.): 20.8
Length (in.): 13.19

Can be found for ~ $400(Or better with the great MIL/LEO discount)
S-TAC3-16X42MOA
Reticle Type: MOA-3
Magnification: 3-16X
Object Diameter (mm): 42
Focus Type: Side Focus
Parallax Range: 9yds to Infinity
Weight (oz.): 23.5
Length (in.): 12.9
 
Found it on a UK web site for £359, which puts it in the $500 to $600 US range.

Rambling Warning - Rambling about to begin!

I've been thinking about optics prices for scopes. Consider this - I shoot Nikon equipment and have for over 40 years. (Canon fans, please refrain, this is for example only)

Right now, I can buy a budget, Nikon brand 55mm to 300mm F4 lens which is about a 1.5 to 9 power scope (I shoot a cropped sensor) goes for around $400. Used it goes for under $200.

Premium Nikon (Pro-Class) lenses such as the 70-200mm F2.8 go for considerably more at $2800.

There are two major differences. Speed and resolution.

The 55-300 is an F4, while the 70-200 is F2.8. Doesn't sound like much but it really is. Lets in about twice the light of the F4. That's hugely important. Resolution or sharpness of the 70-200 is vastly superior. The question becomes, do you need it? The 55-300 resolves down to about 10mplx while the resolution of the 70-200 is considerably higher. This translates into sharper images, IF and only if you have a higher resolution sensor that works with the lens.

The scopes we buy follow many of the same pricing rules. It seems to be generally accepted that under $100 scopes have poor optics, are generally somewhat generic, and pretty much useless.

As you hit the $150 - $300 range, quality seems to go up. You get into brands that aren't Zeiss or Leupold, but quite usable. Just saw a comparison of a Nikon Prostaff at $160 vs a Leupold low end at $500 ish, and the Leupold was definitely better. The ProStaff was very good (I'd use it in a heartbeat), but the Leupold was noticeably better in both light transmissison (lens speed) and sharpness (resolution) Considering the Mark-III in the demo was about 2 and a half times more expensive than the ProStaff, it better be better, right?

At $500 and up, you start to get into the higher quality optics that are super sharp edge to edge, have better light transmission, and such. These elements improve as you get more and more expensive.

The main observation I have is that as you get more expensive over $500 these days, the improvement per dollar spent decreases. The real difference between a $500 scope and a $1000 scope will NOT be anywhere near as great as the difference between a $80 generic scope and the $160 Prostaff.

Same goes for lenses. I could spring the $2800 for the 70-200, but do I really need the quality improvements? You should see the pictures I get with the 55-300mm I really don't know how much the 70-200mm quality would improve my pictures as I don't have one to compare with, but when I crop a picture and blow it up to 11x14 for mounting, they still look great, able to pick out whiskers on the fox.

Yes you get more, but how much more do you really need?

As for Leupold, I'd love to see the scope described here, and at the price point of $500, however, for Leupold quality I doubt they would do it. With their name and reputation, they could easily charge $900 to $1000 for the features described. Wish I had some really good reasons for them to hit that $500 price point.

Rambling Over - Return to normal life