One Piece vs Two Piece...the tale of the tape.

[thomasair]

Shot 6 cards this morning with the intention of seeing how scores compare when using a one piece Randolph rest with sandbag top and a typical two piece setup with mechanical front using same top and a rear sand bag.

The saving grace of winter in my part of Colorado is that the cold is often offset by really nice wind. Temps were in the low to mid 20s...but the wind was a pleasant 1-3 mph.

Here are the One piece cards and setup pics.

250 19x
250 16x
250 21x. 750 56x

I'll post the 2 piece in a minute.

 

[thomasair]

Here's the two piece.

250 20x
250 19x
250 20x. 750 59x

 

[thomasair]

The 2 scores differences are pretty insignificant. Despite the two piece posting a slightly higher x count...it may just as well be a little lower next time around. The one piece is like having adaptive cruise on a long trip compared to the two piece just being regular cruise. You might get where you're going a little faster with regular cruise...but you'll be paying more attention to things.

Mike

 

[manabeknives]

Excellent shooting. Super nice rifle. Very cool front rest. Looks like it can support a car! I would LOVE to get to that level of cruise control! #24 on the last 2-piece card looks like a 9, but still a card i would love to be able to shoot. Just tells me i need to practice more and more.
Mike

 

[thomasair]

Thanks. It's as close to a 9 as you can get without it being a 9.

Mike

 

[bdzjlz]

Here's the two piece.

250 20x
250 19x
250 20x. 750 59x

View attachment 422700View attachment 422699View attachment 422701View attachment 422702

Wow - what a rig!

 

[par208s]

I'll take it!!

 

[RScott]

The 2 scores differences are pretty insignificant. Despite the two piece posting a slightly higher x count...it may just as well be a little lower next time around. The one piece is like having adaptive cruise on a long trip compared to the two piece just being regular cruise. You might get where you're going a little faster with regular cruise...but you'll be paying more attention to things.

Mike

With the Protektor rear rest, how do you prevent changing side torques on the butt stock as you pan across the card? If you shoot vertically, perhaps a bit of adjustment can be made as you move from column to column. But I think you've said you shoot left to right; do you adjust the rest as you move your POA? (Is that a Teflon sheet under the rest?)

What other factors differentiate what you do in regular cruise control (2-piece) versus adaptive cruise control (1-piece)?

Thanks for all the education you provide us.

 

[nomojo65]

With a two piece rest and the damping effect of the rear bag I’ve often wondered if this affords a little De-resonating effect so shot cycle harmonics don’t reverberate back to the barrel? (Especially with a solid frame bolted directly to the barreled action ). Maybe the pellet is long gone by then. GREAT shooting Mike.

Mike did you machine your own front rest?

 

[Ricochet]

Very impressive shooting off both set ups.

 

[thomasair]

With the Protektor rear rest, how do you prevent changing side torques on the butt stock as you pan across the card? If you shoot vertically, perhaps a bit of adjustment can be made as you move from column to column. But I think you've said you shoot left to right; do you adjust the rest as you move your POA? (Is that a Teflon sheet under the rest?)

What other factors differentiate what you do in regular cruise control (2-piece) versus adaptive cruise control (1-piece)?

Thanks for all the education you provide us.

I visually line up the rear bag with the front rest aiming at bull 13 and measure out the distance. You can slide the gun back and forth and watch through the scope to see if it's tracking straight and adjust as necessary. When you put the gun initially in the bag....it will be riding high and may take maybe 10 shots before it bottoms out and stays put. Once it no longer moves after taking a shot...it's packed up. I don't let that happen. I lift the rear of the gun and set it down lightly after each shot to keep it from packing. Once it's packed you can get odd vertical shots. This gun is long enough that I don't see any torque issues at 50y as long as I center it up before I begin.

It's a felt and rubber spacer under the bag. Just to lift it up.

 

[thomasair]

With a two piece rest and the damping effect of the rear bag I’ve often wondered if this affords a little De-resonating effect so shot cycle harmonics don’t reverberate back to the barrel? (Especially with a solid frame bolted directly to the barreled action ). Maybe the pellet is long gone by then. GREAT shooting Mike.

Mike did you machine your own front rest?

I believe it does, too, as long as it does not pack.

Yes, I built that rest about a decade ago. It's seen a lot of use.

 

[Solo1]

The 2 scores differences are pretty insignificant. Despite the two piece posting a slightly higher x count...it may just as well be a little lower next time around. The one piece is like having adaptive cruise on a long trip compared to the two piece just being regular cruise. You might get where you're going a little faster with regular cruise...but you'll be paying more attention to things.

Mike

Do you think the x count could be higher just because your paying a bit more attention?

 

[thomasair]

Do you think the x count could be higher just because your paying a bit more attention?

No, I doubt it. I haven't found that telling myself to really focus or concentrate an extra amount will produce a higher score. I think the scores are representative of the average that this gun and shooter can produce....and if enough cards are shot the average will reveal itself.

Overall, I don't see that a one piece rest produces a tangible score advantage. That is an observation based on years of information....not just this particular test. The only advantage I could possibly see is if a shooter just doesn't know how to set up a two piece correctly .... or is just sloppy with its use. My one piece with hard supports is way more fussy about gun position on the rest.

Mike

 

[tommyb]

Mike

Very timely post since the one piece vs. two piece rests has come up recently in other posts also.

Background:

I have one Benchrest rifle ( Annie 1907 .22 LR ) that I can use with my Randolph front mechanical rest. It has a nice 3” forend flat stock, perfect for this rest. My rear bag is a Protektor with the two ears. So, I’m in the two piece camp currently. I shoot from right to left, then left to right on next row starting from bottom row with N50 cards.

What exactly does ‘packed up’ mean, when you are talking about the rear bag? Does it mean that the butt of the stock is not stable, and moves too much from shot to shot? If this is true, then do you suggest lifting the rear Protektor bag with each new record shot to ‘stabilize’ my butt stock for each new shot?

Using your two piece set up, can you briefly describe what you do going from one bull to the next? What adjustment is done with your front rest and same question for your rear bag. Walk us thru your process.

As an example, when I begin my card, I always use my Randolph elevation and occasionally my windage knobs to center on my bull. Next, I adjust my rear bag and try to align in a straight line behind the Randolph. I don’t lift the bag, but I’m assuming I should.

We can PM if easier.

Tom

 

[thomasair]

Tommy...it's important to know, right away, that what's good for Rimfire may not be good for air and vice versa. I'm not a Rimfire shooter, so I can't say what they need from experience. I hear a lot of it, though. There are way more things going on in an air rifle that can screw up your shot compared to Rimfire. The strike, valve opening, valve closing, and even the volume of air moving inside the system can massively affect where the slug goes. It's a delicate balancing of these forces that make things work.

My slug gun prefers the rear bag to give a little. When I say pack ....I mean just that. Sand bags can pack up rock hard after a while...especially the ears. I get the best performance if I don't let the ears pack up. Lifting the back of the gun up and lightly setting it back down will keep the ears from packing up and becoming hard.

Mike

 

[Joef]

Mike

Very timely post since the one piece vs. two piece rests has come up recently in other posts also.

Background:

I have one Benchrest rifle ( Annie 1907 .22 LR ) that I can use with my Randolph front mechanical rest. It has a nice 3” forend flat stock, perfect for this rest. My rear bag is a Protektor with the two ears. So, I’m in the two piece camp currently. I shoot from right to left, then left to right on next row starting from bottom row with N50 cards.

What exactly does ‘packed up’ mean, when you are talking about the rear bag? Does it mean that the butt of the stock is not stable, and moves too much from shot to shot? If this is true, then do you suggest lifting the rear Protektor bag with each new record shot to ‘stabilize’ my butt stock for each new shot?

Using your two piece set up, can you briefly describe what you do going from one bull to the next? What adjustment is done with your front rest and same question for your rear bag. Walk us thru your process.

As an example, when I begin my card, I always use my Randolph elevation and occasionally my windage knobs to center on my bull. Next, I adjust my rear bag and try to align in a straight line behind the Randolph. I don’t lift the bag, but I’m assuming I should.

We can PM if easier.

Tom

Hey Tommy, will add my 2 cents with you shooting rimfire. First the front rest has to be level, including the top if one uses a regular front sand bag. Just because one has the platform level the bag bottom can be leaning a tad either side depending the fill used. When one is cocking and uncocking, overtime it can upset the bag if one uses a sandbag. I have a delrin block 3 inches wide with a level built in to make sure it is level.

The rear bag is also going to have to be solid on the bench no wiggling around. The rear bottom of your stock needs to fit nicely between your bag ears no wiggle side to side. You do not have to lift the rear of your stock each shot. I know for myself in the early years I purchased different style bags to find one that I like and fit my primary rifles. Some stocks have a wider rear bottom.

The key is everything needs to be level including your target and centered. Mike gave you sound advice in how he sets up the two piece. Will add one thing that I do for the front rest is making sure the middle post is centered using the horizontal knob to middle of target which is bull 13. The rear bag needs to be centered with the middle of you top that you are using.

Seb with his Neo rest would include a string you attach to the front stop to center your rear bag in correlation to both top and target, great idea. You might want to give that a try to locate where the middle is. I see many folks just throwing there stuff on the bench without any real purpose just to hurry and shoot.

One can shoot just as good in rimfire with a two piece vs a one piece.

Hope this helps,
Joe

 

[EPG]

These are pictures of my rudimentary (compared to thomasair’s setups) two piece setup. It has been working great for me.

Note that it addresses the side torque on the stock effectively by having a panoramic (rotating) arca clamp on top of the tabletop low profile ballhead tripod.

My two stacked components that make up my rear rest are high precision laboratory tables - one for up/down and one side to side.

So, when I adjust from target to target (I typically shoot left to right), I simply move the rear control knob. Because the front rest has a rotating pano head, no torque gets stored in the stock as I dial across the targets.

My front setup costs about $125:
Rubber coated rifle clamp - $70 Amazon
Pano head - $15 Aliexpress
Tripod with built in low profile ballhead $40 - Aliexpress

My rear setup costs about $170:
Up/Down lab lift $80 delivered- Aliexpress
Left/Right lab table $90 delivered- Aliexpress

Sticky sunglass holders between lab tables and under bottom of lab tables - $11 for 3 - Amazon

Its not a cheap solution, but I’ve found it to be much better for accuracy than solutions with rear sandbags.

-Ed

 

[mikes]

This thread got me thinking about how I can increase the speed of benchrest set up with my equipment. What I am going to post may not be relevant to most, but with the type of front and rear rest I have this has simplified getting my rifle on the center of the target with the front and rear rest in very good alignment. I have a front rest plate that adds mass and lessens the recoil wiggle of front rest. My front rest sets into detents in the plywood top. (Below the plywood is an attached 1/4" steel plate) So position of this sandwich plate is the first, and most important set up step. My dilemma was getting the plate (and thus the front rest and rear rest) positioned to be 90 degrees to the target and oriented so that the with the windage adjustment (on the rear rest, not front) when centered would put me right in the center of the target.
I made a simple way to do this buy using a indexed block with a small red dot scope mounted on top. Within 7-10 seconds I set the front plate and position the red dot to target center. After that I put the front rest in the detents in the plywood and then use a spacer block between the front and rear rest. I can achieve 1.5" L or R of center every time at 50 yds. The spacer block also allows repeatable placement of the rear rest to the rifle stock. It is quite simple and quite fast. I have used a one piece Randolph rest in the past , and they are excellent, but currently do not have one. So I have found this rest combination to be very adequate. This rear adjustment rest only allows for so much horizontal movement, so It's important to get the rear rest centered L to R as well as centered on the target and this set up procedure is fast and fool proof. I might add that I also use a smaller 3/8" steel plate under the rear rest .....this plate also has detents in it for the feet. (I don't like to fool with a rest halfway through shooting a card)
Set up for BR is critical and I think Mike and Joe have brought up some excellent tips in this thread. Tips that come from hundreds of hours of shooting experience. Take this for what it's worth.

 

[Loufish]

Hey MikeS. That's the same type of rest I used at the 2021 N50 Nationals - a Cowan. Don't let anyone poo-poo it.
OTH, the Randolph is superior.

Feels good man...

Cowan Rest a User Review