On selecting a proper scope

Toward selecting a proper scope for my newly acquired RAW HM1000X I followed my plan to use the only scope on hand to flush out what might work out best for me. I'm totally new to airgunning and find that doing my research online frustrating and doesn't answer all questions. My goal and purpose for the right scope is simply target shooting between 25 and 100 yards. I installed a Hawke 8-32x? Airmax scope yesterday and found the cross hairs difficult to settle shooting at 40 yards with maximum magnification. Prior to this I was leaning toward a 10-50 magnification scope because that's what my reading suggests. But if the cross hairs are beginning to be hard to manage at around 32x wouldn't it be more difficult at 50x? What do I really need or what is the rationale for the best magnification on targets up to 100 yards?

On the subject of reticles it becomes even more confusing. I can see for hunting purposes that MOA graduations would be helpful but for target shooting only are they necessary or even useful? Since distances are already known and windage can be compensated for by scope adjustments sans crosshair graduations what is the need for the markings?

And lastly, I understand that the very best glass is desirable and even necessary when reaching out 1000 yards, etc. but at what point with respect to quality are there diminishing returns at 100 yards? Someone posted a persuasive argument for lesser quality and lower priced binoculars when viewing objects at short distances while recognizing the need for better quality/higher priced glass at greater distances. Doesn't this same argument hold true with rifle scopes?
 
If you are hunting then those uber high power scopes are a waste of time. It would be for me anyway. I'd never be able to keep the crosshairs on a squirrel as it moved and I'd lose my shot while I was busy messing around trying to focus it at 30x.

Once you get above 7x or 8x you start needing parallax correction so every time the game moves you have to spend time refocusing the scope. The higher the power setting, the worse that problem becomes. 

Also, on a 2nd focal plane scope, your mil dot corrections will be different for every power setting. I don't know how good your memory is or your mental arithmetic but I can only really use a few power settings if I want to work out corrections on the fly in real time. 

For hunting I use a 3-9 or a 4-14 but for 25 and 50 yard shots I usually leave the power setting at 4x where there is no focusing to do and one set of holdover corrections to remember. I just point and shoot and the squirrels don't get away while I am busy messing with turrets and trying to refocus because the squirrel moved 3 feet closer. 

If you are target shooting the needs are different. High power scopes are more helpful as you have time to adjust them for the shot as the target is static. 

The differentce between high and low price scopes is basically the clarity and light transmission of the glass. For me, it is always better to have the clearest glass regardless if you have a high or low power scope. If you want to hear that there is no difference at 25 or 50 yards between a $200 and a $1000 scope, you won't because there is. Can you manage with a cheaper scope for hunting at 25 yards, yes you can. You might notice in low light scenarios or at the higher power settings but you can make do.

just my $0.02
 
So I'm going to ASSUME when you say target shooting you are in fact bench rest shooting. If that is indeed the case, you'll have a steady front rest and having your crosshairs settle is never an issue. If you are not shooting from a rest, off hand for example, then yes you are right on the mark about magnification, the higher the harder to hold.

I have a RAW BM500x 30cal with a Sightron SSIII 10-50x60. I got this gun for 75y and 100m bench rest competition, but I have also shot at 25m and 50y with it. All of this from a rest. I also use it for silhouette competition at 70m and 100m. At 52 my eyes are still sharp as ever at distance but suck up close. When shooting bench rest at any distance I crank the magnification up to 50x, but for silhouette I like using either 24x or 32x. While the place I shoot silhouette isn't super strict, you are supposed to shot your silhouette targets in order and being at 50x makes it hard for me to be sure I'm on the right target if I'm just starting out or have missed prior shots. At 24x I can see most of the rack of targets, at 32x I can see enough to easily know where I'm at, #1 or #3 or #5 for example.

Keep in mind that say for 25m bench rest you inner most ring is smaller than a 0.177 pellet. Your goal is to hit 75 out 75 of those to the point that you wipe it off the paper for a "X". So having the high magnification is nice! The target for 50y is the same. At lower magnifications your crosshairs can completely cover your target, this is especially true for reticles that use a "dot" center. At 75y and 100m the problem is magnified no pun intended. Your center dot/cross can complete cover the inner ring or even inner two rings. It's hard to "guess" if your exactly lined up unless your at a high magnification.

Reticles... having one with marked graduations is VERY helpful in bench rest. So let's take my 30cal as an example. At 100m with a 10mph left to right cross wind my POI is ~10" to the right of the POA. So if I have a reticle marked in MOA graduation of some kind and I know how much each mark is valued at then I can hold over exactly 10 MOA and hit my intended target. But keep in mind that many higher power scope have a secondary focal plane (SFP), which means the size of your reticle doesn't change when you "zoom in", so those graduations on your reticle will be different at each magnification. On a first focal plane, your reticle zooms with you and stays the same in terms of graduation values. So what I do on my SFP is simply memorize what my graduations are at the zoom values I use, 24x, 32x and 50x. Make up a wind chart for various speeds and directions. So if I can estimate the wind speed and direction correctly I can quickly adjust for windage using my reticle. The wind changes too fast to be messing with turret clicks, at least where I shot anyway.

Another thing on reticles, having made the mistake myself, make sure you're happy with a dot center if that's what you settle on with other reasons. My Sightron Silhoutte reticle completely covers the center ring on every target I shot and I don't like that. I would prefer a fine crosshair. I will sell it sooner or later. I ordered a Sidewinder 8-32 yesterday with fine crosshairs for my Thomas that is coming in a couple of weeks. Assuming I like it I will order another for my 22lr silhouette gun. 

Glass quality... As you zoom to the higher magnification your view will get darker and darker. It can also display aberrations or magnify aberrations might be a better way to put it. So depending how your eyes are, what your typical shooting conditions are, well... your mileage may vary. Personally I LOVE March scopes, but I'm also perfectly happy with a Sightron SSIII too. Would I rather have a March, yes, but I would rather not spend ~$3K on my scope either. If at all possible, find a club with shooters and ask to look through their scopes, most will be happy to show off their rig. Find what you think is acceptable to you. Rather you end up with a lower end or tip top model just make sure you're happy.
 
"Dirte"How are you shooting? Are you using a rest?
I'm just using an Atlas bipod up front and resting the butt end of the stock on my arm or hand for now. I really don't know which way to go from there. After viewing some of the videos from previous Extreme Benchrest competitions it looks like there are plenty of better options. The proper scope is my primary focus for now. :)
 
Thanks Percula! Your comments and suggestions are chipping away at the unknowns. Yes, the target shooting I was referring to is off the bench. Your comment below is helpful in that I assumed there would be time in competition to make adjustments for wind using the scope knobs. It makes more sense to use MOA graduations for that purpose. I wonder though, under what circumstances do those that use no graduations find that type of reticle useful? 

"The wind changes too fast to be messing with turret clicks, at least where I shot anyway."

I also now see the benefit of a first focal plane reticle. But doesn't the magnification of the reticle get in the way as with a large center dot or the reticle becomes so small or faint that makes it hard to see?
 
"beeser"
"Dirte"How are you shooting? Are you using a rest?
I'm just using an Atlas bipod up front and resting the butt end of the stock on my arm or hand for now. I really don't know which way to go from there. After viewing some of the videos from previous Extreme Benchrest competitions it looks like there are plenty of better options. The proper scope is my primary focus for now. :)
Bags or a rest positioned front and rear make my reticle more stable. Yes FFP reticle can be a little big when magnified for a small target.
 
"beeser"Thanks Percula! Your comments and suggestions are chipping away at the unknowns. Yes, the target shooting I was referring to is off the bench. Your comment below is helpful in that I assumed there would be time in competition to make adjustments for wind using the scope knobs. It makes more sense to use MOA graduations for that purpose. I wonder though, under what circumstances do those that use no graduations find that type of reticle useful? 

"The wind changes too fast to be messing with turret clicks, at least where I shot anyway."

I also now see the benefit of a first focal plane reticle. But doesn't the magnification of the reticle get in the way as with a large center dot or the reticle becomes so small or faint that makes it hard to see?
Yes the competitions are timed, but its not the reason for not having time. It's because the wind changes direction and/or speed too quickly more times than not to be fiddling with turrets. By the time you come out of your shooting position, reach around, lean to look what you're doing, turn it 5 clicks to the right and get back on the gun and ready to shot, the flags have changed... Sometimes its consistent long enough that turret adjustment is practical. The 25m and 50m have (3) 25 shot rounds of (20) minutes each, or a little under a minute per shot. Most people can shot 2-4 shots in a minute without rushing their game. The 75y and 100m is club specific, but basically you have an hour to shot ~60 shots and most finish in the first 30 minute round (we take a 15 min break at 30mins). I never feel "rushed" to get shots off. Now if I tried to wait out the wind waiting for optimal conditions I'm sure I would run out of time, small waits for things to settle into a pattern is fine.

Another reason I like using graduations on a reticle instead of turret adjustments is I forget I adjusted the turret and switch back to holdover but now my holdover is all messed up. I've been shooting using holdover for so long its second nature to me. Having these fancy target scopes with the graduated reticles just is cream on top!

The targets have known dimensions, so you can use a reticle without graduations to calculate your windage holdover. For example the 25m/50y target has (25) bulls, each is in a 2"x2" square. The ring diameters are published as well. Shooting silhouette is similar in that the dimensions of the targets are published. 

On a good FFP the reticle stays the same throughout the zoom range other than "field of view". And yes, having a dot center will result in the relative size increasing with magnification. On 10x it might appear to fit inside the 10 ring, but on 32x it covers the 10 ring. The width of the hairs has the same effect, but since they are very thin to begin with, you would have to have a very very high power to have a blockage problem like you can easily have with a dot center.
 
"beeser"
"Dirte"How are you shooting? Are you using a rest?
I'm just using an Atlas bipod up front and resting the butt end of the stock on my arm or hand for now. I really don't know which way to go from there. After viewing some of the videos from previous Extreme Benchrest competitions it looks like there are plenty of better options. The proper scope is my primary focus for now. :)
Get a rear bag and make sure you preload your bipod and it'll be stable as a rock. We have a shooter at our club that shots a RAW HM1000x 30cal just like the one you bought but without the adjustable stock. 9 times out of 10 he has the top score for all classes in 75y and 100m matches. He shots off a bipod and rear bag. Scoring his targets are a pain, you have to have so many shots per bull or lose points, and he always has bulls with stack pellets... got to get the damn phone out, take a picture and zoom it in to see the second or third lead line. You can see what I'm talking about on RAW's FB page, he has some of his targets posted.
 
Percula - Thanks again for your input! Your comments are helping a great deal.

I'm convinced about the value of a rear bag and will be ordering one this weekend. I'll probably get one from Protektor unless there's a suggestion for something better.

As for the scope, I'm heavily leaning in the direction of one that doesn't have dots either in the center or along the graduations as with MIL dots. Since my use for the scope is benchrest target shooting I like the idea making windage adjustments using known dimensions on the target as Percula explained. Maybe small marks on the reticle would be helpful if they don't get in the way. I also like the idea of FFP if the crosshairs or markings don't become confusing or obtrusive, especially at higher magnification. There's certainly a lot of things to consider but I'm getting closer to making a decision. After a brief look at the offerings from Sightron, Nightforce and March it seems that my choices of reticles are limited with the higher adjustable magnification scopes, so that in itself may narrow the field. The search continues.
 
"Dirte"
"beeser"How about the Hawke Sidewinder ED 10-50X60?
I asked the same question awhile a go here http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/hawke-sidewinder-ed-10-50x60-tmx-with-interchangeable-turrets/
Dirte - Thanks for the heads up. Weatherby makes a good point about not having any user feedback on the Hawke and staying with the proven Sightron. Here are my leanings so far ....

Hawke 10-50X60 ED at $900 + $90 for the 1/8 MOA turret
Nightforce Competition 15-55X52 with FCR-1 reticle at $2352
Sightron SIII 10-50X60 LRFCH at $876

The Nightforce with the FCR-1 reticle and reputation looks good except for the price. I like the TMX reticle on the Hawke but I haven't run across any reviews on it. And the Sightron would be great except I'm uncertain about the fine crosshair reticle even the mil dot version.

 
"Dirte"It looks like the parallax is 25 yards on the Nightforce if that is important to you or not.
Didn't notice that before. Benchrest targets at 25 yards is the shortest distance I'll probably use the scope. Do you think that might be a problem?

I just viewed a couple of YouTube videos on the Hawke, one from AirgunWeb and another in Russian. The latter showed the scope out to maximum magnification and it looked clear. What do you think of the TMX reticle?
 
"beeser"
"Dirte"It looks like the parallax is 25 yards on the Nightforce if that is important to you or not.
Didn't notice that before. Benchrest targets at 25 yards is the shortest distance I'll probably use the scope. Do you think that might be a problem.

I just viewed a couple of YouTube videos on the Hawke, one from AirgunWeb and another in Russian. The latter showed the scope out to maximum magnification and it looked clear. What do you think of the TMX reticle?


I like everything about what the ED has to offer, except the proven track record. That is why I decided on the Sightron. The TMX reticle is much like the MOA-H SIII.
I would love to support Leupold or NightForce. Both are built in the NorthWest which I'm from. It seems like they are not to interested in the airgun parallax arena as of yet. I know Leupold can custom set them but we are already at the high dollar end. If I were going to have just one rifle I would consider saving for the best. I just like to collect new stuff here and there.
I'm sure with the research you are doing, you will probably end up happy with your decision. I keep replying to this topic because the more information I read helps me decide on my next scope.
 
Dirte - Once again, thanks for a heads up. I see now that the MOA-H reticle by Sightron is very similar to the Hawke TMX reticle. I also noticed that the Sightron Model 25016 and 25017(IR version) have 1/4 MOA adjustable turrets. The Hawke Ed has the same but optional 1/8 MOA turrets can be purchased. I don't know if Sightron scopes have that capability or whether it's even important. My reading suggests the 1/8 MOA adjustable turrets are preferred for target shooters. Based on the best pricing I could find online the Sightron SIII IRMOA-H is about $400 more than the Hawke ED. By eliminating the illuminated reticle on the Sightron the price drops to about the same as the Hawke ED. So, what it all comes down to is I have to decide 1) How important is an illuminated reticle? 2)How important is the 1/4 versus 1/8 MOA adjustable turret? 3)Is the Sightron a much better scope than the Hawke, especially with respect to image clarity at higher magnification and if so, is it worth the extra cost? 2)And if it works out the Hawke is a better value is it worth taking a chance on their spotty reputation? This about sums up thinking so far and seems like I'm getting closer to making a decision.
 
A decision has been made motivated in part by comments made by Dirte and someone over at the Yellow forum. I purchased a Sightron SIIISS 1050X60 LRMOA-H. It doesn't have the 1/8 MOA turret clicks and illuminated reticle but hopefully those features won't be an issue. At least I've got something to get me started. Time and some shooting experience should flush out future needs. Here's an interesting blog that shows some images out of the scope.

http://www.ctcustomairguns.com/the-heacutectors-special-scope-by-sightron.html